LaFrentz LaFanClub

[MavsManiac]

two straight double-doubles has me believing he's finally convinced that he CAN contribute to this team & he doesn't need to just FIT IN...

26-10 & a couple blocks tonite follows a 16-11-2 game before...

Anyone ready to jump on the LaFrentz bandwagon yet??? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

NO Bradley really available tonite & Raef stays outta foul trouble the whole game... I like it!

[Bayliss]

His lack of fouls did surprise me. But then again, Atlanta never went into the post.

[Drbio]

Raef gets no love. He is earning his keep over the last week.

[MFFL]

Atlanta went repeatedly to the post when Raef wasn't on the floor. That's why he logged 40+ minutes.

Raef played very well - his outside shot isn't quite there yet but he is aggressively getting offensive rebounds and cutting to the basket for the easy points.

[MavsFanFinley]

I hope this is his spring board and will be able to continue to be what we need him to be.

I'm not fool enough to believe he'll be putting up 15-20, 12 every night, but I'd like to see this type of showing against the likes of Sacramento, Portland, Lakers, SA.

This team will be pretty damn scary with Dirk (given), Bradley (consistant thus far) and Raef all having big games for our front court.

[MFFL]

This is the main reason I wanted to keep Raef. If Mantis and Raef are playing well it gives us the best 48 minutes of center play in the NBA. If one of them is off on a night, then we are still in good shape. If both of them are off then we are in for a long night.

[MavsManiac]

<< I hope this is his spring board and will be able to continue to be what we need him to be.

I'm not fool enough to believe he'll be putting up 15-20, 12 every night, but I'd like to see this type of showing against the likes of Sacramento, Portland, Lakers, SA.

This team will be pretty damn scary with Dirk (given), Bradley (consistant thus far) and Raef all having big games for our front court. >>



Nah.. nobody's crazy enuf to expect a double-double outta him every nite... Dirk takes too many rebounds from him to expect that, but it is VERY NICE to see him be aggressive attacking the basket, getting boards, blocking shots... he keeps it up &amp; it'd make the BIG frontline of Dirk/Mantis/Raef quite imposing!

[FilthyFinMavs]

I agree with Bradley and Lafrentz we have a much better chance against the Elite teams but can anyone tell me the last time LA and Brad played well together? It seems as if it is always one or the other or neither.

[DirkNash1341]

<< I agree with Bradley and Lafrentz we have a much better chance against the Elite teams but can anyone tell me the last time LA and Brad played well together? It seems as if it is always one or the other or neither. >>



True, but it's not exactly a time-tested trend. It's quite simple: last year Bradley was horrible, played the worst basketball of his career(WHEN he played) and this year Raef has been horrible(WHEN he was healthy). I see no reason that they can't both click at the same time if healthy.

[Murphy3]

let's just hope lafrentz keeps it up..he has the talent to be a 14/8/2.5 guy in a mavs uniform

[dude1394]

Very nice game by raef. He was involved well in the pick and roll, he's also the most active offensive rebounder we have and except for eddie out second best garbage guy.

Of course if he is stroking the ball like tonight he really has it all. Blocking shots, rebounding AND pulling the big guy out or just shooting over him.

I also like the idea of raef/shawn/dirk on the floor as well. With steve/fin it's as far away from small ball as we can get.

I also think that lineup CAN stop shaq.

[grbh]

let's just hope lafrentz keeps it up..he has the talent to be a 14/8/2.5 guy in a mavs uniform

What he said

[Murphy3]

at this point, i'm not as worried about stopping shaq as i am about slowing down sacramento.

anyways, raef did cut to the basket very well tonight..as did dirk on a couple of occasions

[dude1394]

I believe you are CORRECT about those kings there murph.

[Rhylan]

Well, the last two games are a step in the right direction.. I'd like to know a little more about Robert Hackett.. I wonder how much of his program is subtly geared towards changing players' dispositions....

[LRB]

It was really great to see Raef step up when the team really needed him too. Shawn was hurt and Nellie really wanted to rest him. Raef's play really made that happen. I hope everybody remembers that when the Mantis returns to play. Without Raef we might have had another injury which we could ill afford. I agree that he needs to have better games agains the elite teams, but this is a huge step in the right direction for him. At least it will keep him out of Nellie's doghouse for a couple of days.

[OutletPass]

Let's hope that he stays out for Good, LRB.

When all of the Raef ...err, &quot;stuff&quot; was going on, I kept asking for some patience due to his injury. Who knew that so much of it was in his head ?

Just goes to show.

[LRB]

OP: we can all be thankful that Nellie and Cubes are near as knee-jerk as many of us on this board are. I think the team would really have some problems if we ruled decisions by majority vote. Who knows, if nellie can turn Raef around, maybe he'll even get to coach the rest of the year. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

BTW did you get to see any of the game in SuperSlowMotion?

[Smiles]

i knew he had it! i knew it all along.

(glory to me [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img])

[OutletPass]

LRB...Only got to see one play in SuperSlowMotion...it's been banned where I live. But I managed to pirate on the play where Raef was taking it inside for another 2 and Ratliff swatted it all the way to the Florida coast...Raef justified the whole SuperSlowMo thing for that one play.

Seriously, it just amazes me that he's responded to the Bow Wow treatment this way. Took Shawn a lot longer, didn't it ? We do often overlook the fact that these guys, who are such unbelievable physical specimens, are pretty human...no matter the contract or whatever else. Didn't know that Raef was more susceptible than most until I heard about the same thing happening under Issel.

All in all, I expect that we've got a 13/8/2 player, just as his career averages suggest. Whether that's enough is up to individual opinion.

I'm getting the feeling, though, that he's going to be our most frequent &quot;trade topic&quot;, replacing NVE (until the next game, that is). Funny how things go up and down during the season.

[LRB]

<< Seriously, it just amazes me that he's responded to the Bow Wow treatment this way. Took Shawn a lot longer, didn't it ? We do often overlook the fact that these guys, who are such unbelievable physical specimens, are pretty human...no matter the contract or whatever else. Didn't know that Raef was more susceptible than most until I heard about the same thing happening under Issel. >>



OP: I think you make a very valid point. How many of us could stand up to the heaps of critism, and much of it public, that these players take. It's easy to sit back and say with the money they make it would be all right, but even with the money I don't think its easy. I've know people to walk away from jobs for much less than what these players receive in critism and they couldn't afford not to have a job. Raef could have said, hey look I have my millions, I'll just retire. Screw you Nellie. I'm really glad he didn't. I wish more people could see that these players are just human with many of the same reactions that we ourselves have to situations. And I don't mean our fantasy reactions, but the ones we have in the real world. Big difference, because I feel we often judge them by our fantasy reactions and not by how we would really reaact. Like people talk big about what they would do if in a similar situation, but unless they have been there its hard to tell what they would actually do.

Anyways, I'm looking forward to a reality DVD I ordered filmed in SuperSlowMotion of Christie household. I'll let you know how it turns out. It has a special appearance by Artest where Mrs. Christie kicks his ass and hits him upside the head with and HDTV camera.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[dude1394]

LRB/OP: Shoot... we can't even take the criticism on a message board. Look at all of the blowouts and bannings. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif[/img]

[ArcticBlast]

Since they got him last year I've been easy on the guy. I've been taking the excuses and waiting it out and giving it time. And, finally, after a very long time of this, I started becoming impatient with him. Personally, it's going to take more than two good games in a row because it took more than that for me to finally admit that he wasn't producing enough.

Forget the numbers, when I see him coming out with passion and energy and heart that he gets paid to have enough times in a row, that's when I'll jump on the bandwagon.

I'm glad that he was good enough to keep Bradley on the bench last night, but it'll take more than that and it'll have to be against a team better than the Hawks. For me, anyway.

[MavKikiNYC]

Thanks, AB.

It's so hard for some people to resist saying I told you so, but it's even harder (for me) to let a couple of nice games on-the-rebound to overshadow 2 half-seasons worth of disappointingly sub-par play from LaF.

Glad to see the effort, just need to see a lot more of it (along with production) before becoming convinced that he's part of the answer.

[sturm und drang]

I think part of the problem is that our expectations of Raef are based on his career averages, which is why people are expecting 12.5/7.5/2.5-ish from him. Realistically, I think we need to realize that those numbers were put up in Denver-- a sub-par team for years now-- in an offense that was geared towards him, NVE and McDyess. Our offense is a many-headed monster, and I think I can safely say it will never be executed and orchestrated around him like it was in Denver.

Consider Juwan Howard: in his last full year in Washington, he averaged 18.2 PPG. In Dallas the next year, it was 12.9 PPG. After the Denver trade, he leapfrogged back up to 17.9.

I don't think we can look at Raef's quasi-gaudy Denver stats and expect that he will produce similarly here, in an offense not geared to him, where he'll be fighting for minutes with two lethal rivals: the Mantis and SmallBall (TM).

Hopefully he can reach those Denver numbers on a consistent basis. But in light of the situation here in Dallas, I'd say-- realistically-- lesser expectations may be in order.

[MavKikiNYC]

True, SUD.

I think people are beginning to come to that realization. Slowly.

A less nice way to say it is that LaF was overrated based on his performance on a bad team in Denver. He may not be the scorer he was in Denver, and he may not have to be. But he really should be able to match or better his rebound numbers, and would be nice to see him evolve the character of his game from a passive, soft, outside-oreinted player, to one who can affect play inside the paint.

[MavsManiac]

<< I'm glad that he was good enough to keep Bradley on the bench last night... >>



I don't know why for sure, but this line just struck me as funny [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

After watching the Mantis last season, whoda thunk somebody'd have to play &quot;good enough&quot; to let him rest an injury?

anyway, back to Raef...

I'd still like to see the Dirk/Mantis/LaF lineup more often... it worked pretty well against Char-err-New Orleans when used extensively in the 2nd half...

[Chef Ed]

I will not jump on the Raef bandwagon. #1 he is from Kansas, and as a Missouri boy I just can't jump on board. As a Maverick fan I hope that this isn't just temporary. I hope he has turned the corner, and that he continues with some sort of consistancy.
With that has anyone considered the possability of a trade concerning Raef, and the new Euro that is being brought in for what I don't know? We already have three point guards, and that's what he is listed at, so I still don't get it, unless he is going to be involved in some sort of trade before the deadline..........

[TripleDipping]

My fellow BBall brethrens... in a recent &quot;The official trade LaFrentz&quot; thread, I said this:

'I really feel that Raef is the remaining piece of the puzzle for the Mavs to go deep into the playoffs. Remember that we don't need Raef to be a superstar, just an average scorer and decent rebounder and defender... which is not something that tough to achieve. I, for one, would like to give Raef another chance.'

Ahhh... feel so good now that I can act like a sage and tell you guys that I told you so. But of course, I still reserve my right to change my opinion if Raef gets back to his slump later. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
Games like yesterday's Hawks game is, IMO, an overachievement for Raef. We shouldn't expect numbers like 20.0 pts. and 10.0 rebs. average from him. Games like the Nuggets game is something to aim for from Raef.
And for all the guys who have been dogging Raef and wanting to trade him... please put your feet in your mouths before you jump back into the bandwagon! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

[grbh]

I have been very hard on Raef lately. His last two games have been impressive, but just like everyone kept telling me you can't judge a guy based on 30 games last year and 10 this, I am confused that a guy can now be judged based upon 2 games either.

As far as the trade Raef thread goes, I would like it known that dispite my distaste for Raef's play this year I was never on board with that. For three reasons:

1. I was willing to give him the rest of the year to get on track

2. I am not interested in addition by subtraction on a 29-5 team no matter how poorly anyone plays. (With a few notable exception, Brand, Kandi, etc.)

3. Raef is in BYC status, so he is only worth about 3.5 million on the block this year.

4. He has a huge contract, and I don't think you could get much in return.

5. Nobody is available who intrigues me.

[ArcticBlast]

<< I think part of the problem is that our expectations of Raef are based on his career averages, which is why people are expecting 12.5/7.5/2.5-ish from him. >>


I agree that that is probably the source for some people's complaints, but personally I just want him to go out there and show some hustle. I don't want to see the rest of the team suffering because he's being lethargic.

[OutletPass]

GRBH...As far as I'm concerned the jury is still, and will be, out for some time. Nothing, one way or the other, is going to be proven quickly.

Your 5 points are well taken.

[dude1394]

I expect I will see just as many....&quot;I was wrong about raef&quot; as I have seen &quot;I was wrong about Shawn&quot;. Not much...

I can't say that I was ever off, so I'm still on.

Nor do I really understand the statement that he's been a dissappointment since coming to dallas. Last HALF year his rebs stayed the same, his points went down by 4 and his blocks by .5.
Coming into dallas's wild offense, not being the man AT ALL and having to try and hold down the fort when nobody was even pretending to play defense outfront, it seems those expectations are way off base.

This years his pre-season numbers were fine, he got hurt after what the 1st game and looks like he's finally coming back. No one can argue that he hasn't been the same since coming back, but he seems to have responded and I'm perfectly happy with that.

[sturm und drang]

ArcticBlast, I agree that his lethargy this year has been troubling. I'm hoping, though, that what we perceived as lethargy was some form of injury-hangover, a lack of conditioning and agility.

Note I said &quot;hoping&quot;.

I do think that we need to redefine the standards/stats to which he'll be held accountable here, and I don't think his time in Denver-- a bad, bad team on which he was one of their &quot;Big 3&quot;-- is the right precedent. We've still got to figure out how he'll work most effectively here, and I guarantee it will be quite different from his role on the Nugs. I know this is an over-simplification, but we did acquire Raef primarily to function as a Shaq stopper, as a sweet outside shooter that would necessarily pull the Blaq Aristotle (my favorite uninentionally hilarious nickname of all time) out from under the basket.

The past two games, I've really liked how he's gone strong to the basket, and his help-side defense and lateral quickness seem to be improving a tad. I still think he mistimes some of his rebound attempts, but that, too, seems to be improving somewhat. And he's shown some hustle. But, like everyone else, I realize this is just two games. Anyone can look improved over a two-game stretch against the Nuggets and Hawks!

Does anyone know why he was constantly in Issel's doghouse in Denver?

[LRB]

<< I think part of the problem is that our expectations of Raef are based on his career averages, which is why people are expecting 12.5/7.5/2.5-ish from him. Realistically, I think we need to realize that those numbers were put up in Denver-- a sub-par team for years now-- in an offense that was geared towards him, NVE and McDyess. Our offense is a many-headed monster, and I think I can safely say it will never be executed and orchestrated around him like it was in Denver.

Consider Juwan Howard: in his last full year in Washington, he averaged 18.2 PPG. In Dallas the next year, it was 12.9 PPG. After the Denver trade, he leapfrogged back up to 17.9.

I don't think we can look at Raef's quasi-gaudy Denver stats and expect that he will produce similarly here, in an offense not geared to him, where he'll be fighting for minutes with two lethal rivals: the Mantis and SmallBall (TM).

Hopefully he can reach those Denver numbers on a consistent basis. But in light of the situation here in Dallas, I'd say-- realistically-- lesser expectations may be in order. >>



Sturm: some very good points to consider when evaluating Raef. His role will not be the same on this team as it was on Denver, so it is unfair to expect carbon copy stats when he is filling a new role. Really glad you decided to stick around.

I also agree with everyone that it is far too soon to say Raef is where he needs to be now. He's had 2 games in a row where he has performed IMO above what we can reasonably expect for him to average. I don't think Raef is or will be a 10+ a game rebounder. When he give us this, that is a fantastic bonus. But the last 2 games have been 2 huge steps in a very long journey for Raef. Let's all keep our finger crossed and hope the improved play continues out of Raef.

[Murphy3]

with raef, all you want is 10-13 points per game.. 7-8 rebounds, a couple of blocks and solid defense
that's all that you want.
expecting anything more and you're expecting too much on a team that is this talented

[OutletPass]

Very good posts...Dude, Sturm, LRB and Murph. Very nice to see some balance and thought re-inserted into the conversation.

Sturm...from what I understand, his run in with Issel was basically over the same type of thing that has occurred here...lack of confidence translating to lack of effort on the court. Can't say that I'm an expert on that...it's just what I've read in the media. Maybe we have someone onboard that has some first hand knowledge and can give us all a more complete answer.

[MikeB]

Raef was always in Issel's doghouse because he was maddeningly INCONSISTANT.

[Murphy3]

i dont' doubt raef's effort at all..never would....
when you're struggling with confidence like he was, it can appear that you're not giving the effort

[MavsManiac]

Found this little blurp on the Star Telegram site... seem's Raef ain't ready to jump on his own bandwagon, yet [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]



<< Notes
LaFrentz downplays his two-game burst
By Art Garcia
Star-Telegram Staff Writer

DALLAS - Raef LaFrentz didn't call his struggles a &quot;slump.&quot; So he's not about to call his last two games a &quot;streak.&quot;

&quot;Same thing, just the same thing,&quot; said LaFrentz, who has put together consecutive season-high scoring games. &quot;Saw some numbers go up on the board, and that's about the only difference.

&quot;It's encouraging to everybody, but, to me, some of the games I played poorly in or didn't put up numbers as big I worked harder than I did [Wednesday] night.&quot;

LaFrentz, in coach Don Nelson's doghouse last week, followed up his first double-double of the season (16 points and 11 boards against Denver on Monday) with 26 and 10 against Atlanta on Wednesday.

LaFrentz's performance in the 117-99 win at Atlanta also helped ease the loss of Shawn Bradley, who missed the game with a mild thigh sprain. Bradley saw the team doctor Thursday and could be back in the lineup tonight against Boston.

Even if Bradley doesn't return, Nelson appears comfortable starting and sticking with LaFrentz.

&quot;Everything is different about Raef the last two games,&quot; Nelson said. &quot;His confidence level is up. His minutes are up, and it helps to play a lot of minutes. When Bradley didn't play, [LaFrentz] had the confidence that he was going to be in there over a long period of time. That probably helped his confidence, but mainly there is a different zip in his step.&quot;

LaFrentz has spent much of the past week doing extra work with strength and conditioning coach Robert Hackett. The drills, usually done after practice and during normal days off, are designed to improve movement and balance. Nelson credits much of Bradley's improvement this season to work with Hackett over the summer.

&quot;Basketball is a game of movement and changing direction, and that's some of the things Raef and I have been working on the last five or six days, to get his feet moving better and get his legs under him,&quot; Hackett said. &quot;He's responded pretty well to it. It's showed the last two games.&quot; >>