 |
|
02-18-2003, 10:07 AM
|
#1 |
|
Guru
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 13,206
  |
It seems like there might be a trend here. The coach that gets a team to their first championship tends to be a coach who is new.
2000 Los Angeles Lakers Phil Jackson - hired before the 2000 season 2001 Los Angeles Lakers Phil Jackson 2002 Los Angeles Lakers Phil Jackson 1999 San Antonio Spurs Gregg Popovich - hired during the 1996 season 1994 Houston Rockets R Tomjanovich - hired during the 1992 season 1995 Houston Rockets R Tomjanovich 1991 Chicago Bulls Phil Jackson - hired during the 1989 season 1992 Chicago Bulls Phil Jackson 1993 Chicago Bulls Phil Jackson 1996 Chicago Bulls Phil Jackson 1997 Chicago Bulls Phil Jackson 1998 Chicago Bulls Phil Jackson 1984 Boston Celtics KC Jones - hired in 1983 1986 Boston Celtics KC Jones 1982 Los Angeles Lakers Pat Riley - hired during the 1982 season 1985 Los Angeles Lakers Pat Riley 1987 Los Angeles Lakers Pat Riley 1988 Los Angeles Lakers Pat Riley The only exceptions were 1990 Detroit Pistons Chuck Daly 1989 Detroit Pistons Chuck Daly - hired in 1983 1983 Philadelphia 76ers B Cunningham - hired in 1977 |
|
|
| Sponsored Links |
|
02-18-2003, 10:10 AM
|
#2 |
|
Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
|
Either that or you have to have arguably the best player in the game to win it (86%), or you have to have phil jackson ( 43% )... [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’ |
|
|
|
|
02-18-2003, 12:08 PM
|
#3 |
|
Diamond Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 8,509
|
I think the Lakers already had a championship with Westhead (who replaced Jack McKinney after the latter suffered a bicycle accident) prior to Riley's being hired.
But I get your point. |
|
|
|
|
02-18-2003, 12:11 PM
|
#4 |
|
Guru
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 13,206
|
I think Fitch won a championship in Boston before KC was hired. I was trying to use only the last 20 years to reflect the microwave society we currently live in.
|
|
|
|
|
02-18-2003, 12:20 PM
|
#5 |
|
Guru
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 13,363
 |
The worst has had 6 years. Then, this is the last one for somebody.
__________________
 
|
|
|
|
|
02-18-2003, 06:29 PM
|
#6 |
|
Golden Member
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,864
|
I'll just copy and past from the other thread, same subject, same answer:
When Jackson took over the Bulls, he had Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen, ALREADY on the team. When Jackson took over the Lakers, he had Shaq and Kobe, ALREADY on the team. When Jordan retired, how many championships did Jackson coach the Bulls to, while Jordan was gone? Zero. When Riley took over the Lakers, he had Kareem, Magic and James Worthy, ALREADY on the team. How many championships has Riley won since he left that motherload of talent? Zero. Who was on those Celtic teams? Bird, Parish and McHale. Rockets, Hakeem in his prime and Clyde Drexler. Spurs, David Robinson without a hurt back. Tim Duncan. Both of those guys were #1 picks in the entire draft and near 7 feet tall or over 7 feet tall. It's a lot easier to coach the best players in the league. It does wonders for your win percentage in the playoffs. |
|
|
|
|
02-18-2003, 09:27 PM
|
#7 |
|
Guru
Join Date: May 2001
Location: sport
Posts: 39,432
|
the mavs have dirk, fin, nash, nve, and raef
some coach would be inheriting those players. no,they aren't MJ...but dirk is a top 5-6 player in the NBA.. fin and nash is a top 25 guy and fin is floating somewhere in the top 35 let's not sell these guys short, david. no, none of them will be among the top 10 players of all time..but at least one has an opportunity to be a hall of famer by the time he retires |
|
|
|
|
02-18-2003, 09:34 PM
|
#8 |
|
Golden Member
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,864
|
<< the mavs have dirk, fin, nash, nve, and raef some coach would be inheriting those players. no,they aren't MJ...but dirk is a top 5-6 player in the NBA.. fin and nash is a top 25 guy and fin is floating somewhere in the top 35 let's not sell these guys short, david. no, none of them will be among the top 10 players of all time..but at least one has an opportunity to be a hall of famer by the time he retires >> More from your bag of nothing. Existing in the NBA TODAY is a team with TWO of the top FIVE players in the world. The three time, defending NBA champs. Yet there are people on this forum who expect the Mavs to beat that team, no questions asked. If they don't, fire the coach. And they think it's perfectly reasonable to feel that way. |
|
|
|
|
02-18-2003, 09:39 PM
|
#9 |
|
Old School Balla
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 13,097
|
If the best players win titles, then why do you need coaches?
__________________
The Official KG Twitter Feed |
|
|
|
|
02-18-2003, 09:50 PM
|
#10 |
|
Guru
Join Date: May 2001
Location: sport
Posts: 39,432
|
david, what's with the personal attack?
i don't expect the mavs to beat the lakers no questions asked..never said that i did. only said that the mavs have much less of a chance using nellie's style of play it might be a good time for you to take a break and sit out a week or two. everyone proving you wrong time after time is starting to wear you down a bit |
|
|
|
|
02-18-2003, 09:59 PM
|
#11 |
|
Guru
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 13,206
|
<< If the best players win titles, then why do you need coaches? >> LOL - and a logical extension of that. Why do the Mavs need Nellie? |
|
|
|
|
02-18-2003, 10:02 PM
|
#12 |
|
Guru
Join Date: May 2001
Location: sport
Posts: 39,432
|
heaven forbid a team with a top 5 player on it actually wins..that will never happen
gotta love the "logic" from david |
|
|
|
|
02-18-2003, 10:06 PM
|
#13 |
|
Guru
Join Date: May 2001
Location: sport
Posts: 39,432
|
so what happened with the lakers and the celtics in the 80's? did each team alternate as to who had the most talent?..or, did one player on the lakers jump into the top 5 one year to push them over the top..then the next year, someone else from the celtics jumped into the top 5 the year after to give them the most talent?
is that how it works? dang, all the mavs need is a good GM. they don't even need a coach then, i guess |
|
|
|
|
02-18-2003, 10:48 PM
|
#14 |
|
Golden Member
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,864
|
<< david, what's with the personal attack? >> You are laughable. << i don't expect the mavs to beat the lakers no questions asked..never said that i did. >> Since you don't seen to comprehend very well, I'll tell you what I said, "there are some people on this forum" that expect the Mavs to beat the Lakers know matter what. Here is a quote from KG: "So if Dallas plays the Lakers in the first round, you don't expect them to win? If the Mavericks are a top 2 seed, which they easily should be, there's just no excuse short of an injury to a key player for losing in the first round." This from the thread about "If Nelson hadn't blown it in the offseason". << only said that the mavs have much less of a chance using nellie's style of play >> Once again, your opinion, which I considered the first time I heard it and quickly dismissed as uninformed. << it might be a good time for you to take a break and sit out a week or two. >> Gee, I realize you have delusions of granduer, but the last time I looked, they hadn't named you a moderator. << everyone proving you wrong time after time is starting to wear you down a bit >> To prove me wrong, someone would have to come up with a fact or two. So far everything being offered is either opinion or irrelevant, so no, not yet. Should it happen, I'm not afraid to acknowledge it. Unlike some folks that don't let the lack of facts stand in their way. |
|
|
|
|
02-18-2003, 10:48 PM
|
#15 |
|
Diamond Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 8,195
|
If the mavs had a coach that could get them a title, Nash, Fin, and Dirk (at least) would be considered three of the best players in the league.
|
|
|
|
|
02-18-2003, 10:50 PM
|
#16 |
|
Guru
Join Date: May 2001
Location: sport
Posts: 39,432
|
you're right lurkin.. actually WINNING the title is often what puts players up into the next level
but, it's easy for david to look back and not realize this |
|
|
|
|
02-18-2003, 10:55 PM
|
#17 |
|
Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,460
|
This team is 41-12 with a team that is overachieving. Are they better than San Antonio no, Sacramento no and La no. But they have to prove that they are. This is like a weekly thing get rid of the don. This team is still beating teams by an average of 10 points a game. Dirk his young superstar is learning the importance of Defense and new and improved passing ability. Where the team goes Dirk takes us that's the bottom line. Is he ready he might be? So stop the get rid of Nelson talk. And sit back and see how this team does in the playoffs.
|
|
|
|
|
02-18-2003, 10:56 PM
|
#18 |
|
Golden Member
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,864
|
<< so what happened with the lakers and the celtics in the 80's? did each team alternate as to who had the most talent?..or, did one player on the lakers jump into the top 5 one year to push them over the top..then the next year, someone else from the celtics jumped into the top 5 the year after to give them the most talent? is that how it works? dang, all the mavs need is a good GM. they don't even need a coach then, i guess >> Duh, there were some of the best players in history playing on those teams. Bird, McHale and Parish were on ONE team and Kareem, Magic and Worthy were on the other. They had equal chances. There was no Jordan and Pippen on one team and no one to challenge them. There was no Shaq and Kobe on one team and no one to challenge them. Did you notice Hakeem's team won when Jordan was retired? Did you notice Robinson and Duncan won when Jordan was retired? It's not really that much fun explaining the obvious stuff to people with short attention spans. It's like one of those PBS shows, "Short Attention Span Theatre" |
|
|
|
|
02-18-2003, 11:56 PM
|
#19 |
|
Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
|
<< the mavs have dirk, fin, nash, nve, and raef some coach would be inheriting those players. no,they aren't MJ...but dirk is a top 5-6 player in the NBA.. fin and nash is a top 25 guy and fin is floating somewhere in the top 35 let's not sell these guys short, david. no, none of them will be among the top 10 players of all time..but at least one has an opportunity to be a hall of famer by the time he retires >> But dirk is nowhere near the best player in the league yet and he doesn't play the D yet. And for that matter he's not the kind of player that you've been touting is required, he plays nellie ball. Doesn't have the low-post game that you "have" to have to win championships. I think the mavs CAN win it this year but they do have to stay hot, but the spurs, kings, lakers also could win it and it wouldn't be a shock. David's points seem well made about the best player in the league winning the championships. Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Weber, McGrady, Garnett... Only duncan and shaq are the truly dominant low-post guys.
__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’ |
|
|
|
|
02-19-2003, 12:00 AM
|
#20 |
|
Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 651
|
David...I don't know you but we seem to fight the same fight. I'm sure we would disagree on some things as well.
But my friend, this post says it all. You never need post anything but this reply to those that want to talk about moving Nellie out. You said: "More from your bag of nothing. Existing in the NBA TODAY is a team with TWO of the top FIVE players in the world. The three time, defending NBA champs. Yet there are people on this forum who expect the Mavs to beat that team, no questions asked. If they don't, fire the coach. And they think it's perfectly reasonable to feel that way. " That sums it up. They say it's nothing but it incapsulates the entire argument. I believe the response is....nuff said!! Good job!!!
__________________
I write because of love. I finish because of discipline. |
|
|
|
|
02-22-2003, 06:47 PM
|
#21 |
|
Guru
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 13,206
|
<< 2000 Los Angeles Lakers Phil Jackson - hired before the 2000 season 2001 Los Angeles Lakers Phil Jackson 2002 Los Angeles Lakers Phil Jackson 1999 San Antonio Spurs Gregg Popovich - hired during the 1996 season 1994 Houston Rockets R Tomjanovich - hired during the 1992 season 1995 Houston Rockets R Tomjanovich 1991 Chicago Bulls Phil Jackson - hired during the 1989 season 1992 Chicago Bulls Phil Jackson 1993 Chicago Bulls Phil Jackson 1996 Chicago Bulls Phil Jackson 1997 Chicago Bulls Phil Jackson 1998 Chicago Bulls Phil Jackson 1984 Boston Celtics KC Jones - hired in 1983 1986 Boston Celtics KC Jones 1982 Los Angeles Lakers Pat Riley - hired during the 1982 season 1985 Los Angeles Lakers Pat Riley 1987 Los Angeles Lakers Pat Riley 1988 Los Angeles Lakers Pat Riley The only exceptions were 1990 Detroit Pistons Chuck Daly 1989 Detroit Pistons Chuck Daly - hired in 1983 1983 Philadelphia 76ers B Cunningham - hired in 1977 >> Bumping this to show YET AGAIN that there is little to no connection between the ability to build a team to a playoff contender and winning a championship. |
|
|
|
|
02-22-2003, 09:01 PM
|
#22 |
|
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 628
|
<< Bumping this to show YET AGAIN that there is little to no connection between the ability to build a team to a playoff contender and winning a championship. >> man, why don't you just rest a bit, it is getting old.
__________________
Mavericks is the Prototype for the Next Generation NBA Teams. |
|
|
|
|
02-22-2003, 09:10 PM
|
#23 |
|
Guru
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 13,206
|
<< << Bumping this to show YET AGAIN that there is little to no connection between the ability to build a team to a playoff contender and winning a championship. >> man, why don't you just rest a bit, it is getting old. >> Because I don't want to talk about Nellie all of the time. But I'm forced to because some people want to say that I don't have valid points. Wouldn't YOU hate it if people dogged YOUR opinion all of the time? |
|
|
|
|
02-22-2003, 09:13 PM
|
#24 |
|
Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
|
<< << << Bumping this to show YET AGAIN that there is little to no connection between the ability to build a team to a playoff contender and winning a championship. >> man, why don't you just rest a bit, it is getting old. >> Because I don't want to talk about Nellie all of the time. But I'm forced to because some people want to say that I don't have valid points. Wouldn't YOU hate it if people dogged YOUR opinion all of the time? >> very,very old. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]
__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’ |
|
|
|
|
02-23-2003, 09:22 AM
|
#25 |
|
Diamond Member
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 5,307
|
Two Deep, I think their point is that Dirk, Fin, and Nash would be considered as good as or better than Kobe, Shaq or whomever if they actually defeated those guys and won a title.
|
|
|
|
|
06-10-2006, 07:44 AM
|
#26 |
|
Guru
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 13,206
|
I love this thread.
|
|
|
|
|
06-10-2006, 12:12 PM
|
#27 | |
|
Minister of Soul
Join Date: May 2001
Location: on the Mothership
Posts: 4,893
|
Quote:
|
|
|
|
|
|
06-10-2006, 12:48 PM
|
#28 | |
|
Guru
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 13,206
|
Quote:
|
|
|
|
|
|
06-10-2006, 01:29 PM
|
#29 |
|
Platinum Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,305
|
You know what else wins titles? Keeping your team together for more than one season... maybe Mark Cuban deserves some credit for not taking last years team completely apart like so many other seasons. Go team chemistry!
|
|
|
|
|
06-10-2006, 03:12 PM
|
#30 | |
|
Guru
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 13,206
|
Quote:
|
|
|
|
|
|
06-10-2006, 07:42 PM
|
#31 |
|
Platinum Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,030
|
Well they also won the title the first season they hired Larry Brown, so maybe there is something to the trend. Maybe you need a new guy to put the team on another level.
|
|
|
|
 |
«
Previous Thread
|
Next Thread
»
Linear Mode
|
|
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:09 AM.