Singh says sorenstam has no buisness playing at the colonial - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

jayC · 05-13-2003, 12:47 AM

Monday, May 12, 2003
Singh says he'd withdraw if paired with Sorenstam

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Associated Press

CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- Vijay Singh says Annika Sorenstam has no business playing in the Colonial next week and "I hope she misses the cut." On the odd chance he gets paired with her, he'll withdraw.

"

What is she going to prove by playing? It's ridiculous. She's the best woman golfer in the world, and I want to emphasize 'woman.' We have our tour for men, and they have their tour. She's taking a spot from someone in the field. "
-- Vijay Singh

"Why? Because she doesn't belong out here," Singh said after his runner-up finish in the Wachovia Championship. "If I'm drawn with her, which I won't be, I won't play."

Singh knows he won't be playing in the same group as Sorenstam when she becomes the first woman in 58 years to compete on the PGA Tour. His name will be drawn from a pool of PGA Tour winners when the pairings are made.

Still, his comments were the strongest yet about Sorenstam's decision to accept a sponsor's exemption to play in the Colonial. The last woman to play on the PGA Tour was Babe Zaharias, who qualified for the 1945 Los Angeles Open.

Nick Price, the defending champion at Colonial, has said Sorenstam's presence "reeks of publicity." He thinks she ought to qualify if she wants to prove herself at the highest level.

Scott Hoch, who once played with Sorenstam in a mixed-team tournament, said he wants to see her play well so people will realize "how much separation there is between us and the ladies' tour."

Still, most players have been cautious with their comments, not willing to predict a score and hopeful she plays well so it doesn't reflect poorly on the LPGA Tour.

Singh held nothing back in an interview with The Associated Press as he left the locker room at Quail Hollow late Sunday afternoon, saying the 32-year-old Swede should stick to her own tour

"What is she going to prove by playing? It's ridiculous," said Singh, a two-time major champion who is No. 7 in the World Ranking. "She's the best woman golfer in the world, and I want to emphasize 'woman.' We have our tour for men, and they have their tour. She's taking a spot from someone in the field."

The Colonial is an invitational with a limited field. Sorenstam received one of eight sponsor's exemptions.

Singh speaks from experience.

In 1998, he played in an unofficial event called the "Super Tour" that matched the scorecards of nine professionals after playing 18 holes a day in four Asian cities. Laura Davies was invited to play, and finished 39 strokes behind Singh.

"Laura Davies is a long-ball hitter, but she still had to hit good irons," Singh said. "It's just different for ladies to play on the men's tour. It's like getting the Williams sister to play against a man, and they're far better athletes than she (Sorenstam) is."

Sorenstam has become significantly stronger in the last two years as she has taken over women's golf. She won 13 times around the world last year, the most by a woman in nearly 40 years, and two years ago became the first woman to shoot 59.

Sorenstam was returning from Japan on Monday, where she won the Nichirei Cup by nine shots, and was not available for comment.

Sorenstam has been playing from the back tees to gear up for the Colonial, including a round with Tiger Woods in which she is said to have finished 10 strokes behind.

"Some people don't believe she should be out here -- golfers and men in general," Hoch said. "Most guys hope she plays well, and what comes out of this is that she realizes she can't compete against the men."

Dooby · 05-13-2003, 09:19 AM

Let her play, although I think it is a mistake. This isn't Billy Jean King v. Bobby Riggs. She won't make the cut. And what will that prove?

Ummmmm Ok · 05-13-2003, 09:48 AM

I think singh should get to play in a womens tourney and get to hit off the same tees as they do. After he beats them by 30 strokes, than maybe all of this should lay to rest. If the women want to play with the boys, than let the men play with the girls.

You know what, screw it. Get rid of both leagues and make one big integrated golf association. This way we will have equal rights. After the Likes of Tiger, Singh, and Els kill the women, than maybe they will realize why we have (2) golf associations. Until than, I would like to see Tiger and Els play the on the womens tour. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Dooby · 05-13-2003, 01:08 PM

People love to point out that Sorenstam is the longest on the LPGA tour has a greater driving distance than Corey Pavin. Well, that's great if you are John Daly, I guess. But there is more to golf than hitting it far. Sorenstam's other relevant LPGA stats include 39th in driving accuracy; 64th in putting average; 48th in sand saves. On the flip side, she is number 1 on the LPGA tour in greens in regulation.

Drbio · 05-13-2003, 06:23 PM

I think Singh should stuff a golf bag up his ass. What an idiot.

Blonde Bomber · 05-14-2003, 03:34 PM

Even though I dont care if she competes I hope she fails and misses the cut.
I would not be against this if there was not an LPGA tour. Sorenstam will be no where near the leader board but she will be the news at the colonial and take away from the pros who are actually leading the tournament.

Murphy3 · 05-14-2003, 06:59 PM

what a can of worms something like this could possibly open up.

how long is it before some spare to fair golfer that is bouncing around the nike tour decides to attempt to play on the LPGA..especially knowing that he'll never make it on the PGA tour.

go win a few hundred thousand dollars really quickly and completely ruin the sport for the women..

yes, i know that the PGA doesn't have anything written in their regulations that prohibits a female from competing ..and that the LPGA does have regulations against males competing..
but, you know how this type of thing works once it goes to court..common sense does not prevail.

Am I against her playing? No, I am not. I will enjoy the circus. Do I think that it could open up pandora's box? Sure, it very possibly could do so

Chiwas · 05-14-2003, 07:29 PM

Se Ri Pak should play instead of Annika.

Last Updated:May. 12, 2003 ADT Official Money List
1 Se Ri Pak $ 562,900.00
2 Annika Sorenstam $ 554,501.00
3 Grace Park $ 423,350.00
4 Patricia Meunier-Lebouc $ 422,714.00
5 Lorena Ochoa $ 347,544.00
6 Cristie Kerr $ 278,695.00
7 Rosie Jones $ 277,660.00
8 Candie Kung $ 228,331.00
9 Pat Hurst $ 207,268.00
10 Karrie Webb $ 203,766.00

Last Updated:May. 12, 2003 Victories
1 Se Ri Pak 2
T2 Patricia Meunier-Lebouc 1
T2 Grace Park 1
T2 Wendy Doolan 1
T2 Rosie Jones 1
T2 Annika Sorenstam 1
T2 Candie Kung 1

LRB · 05-14-2003, 08:12 PM

<< yes, i know that the PGA doesn't have anything written in their regulations that prohibits a female from competing ..and that the LPGA does have regulations against males competing.. >>

So does the LPGA have anything in their regulations that would prevent a memember of the Sacramento Queens from playing in one of their tournaments? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Drbio · 05-14-2003, 08:18 PM

It's already happening. Some dude has petitioned the LPGA to play in one of their tournaments. The story came out right after this one did. I can't find it though. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

Chiwas · 05-14-2003, 08:55 PM

<< It's already happening. Some dude has petitioned the LPGA to play in one of their tournaments. The story came out right after this one did. I can't find it though. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img] >>

I think we commented it here in the other thread.

Edit: here it is.

Thread

OutletPass · 05-16-2003, 01:06 PM

VJ needs an enlargement...know what I mean.

The dude is already backtracking from his ridiculous comments. Guess Tiger smacked his ass !!

Murphy3 · 05-17-2003, 11:41 AM

I wish for failure to any man that plays on the LPGA or to any woman that plays on the PGA.

but, I don't really care if they play in the tournaments..i just want to see them to look like fools

Dooby · 05-19-2003, 08:18 AM

Vijay is a classless wuss for pulling out of the Colonial. Screw him. I hope the Colonial never invites him back.

Blonde Bomber · 05-19-2003, 09:46 AM

<< Vijay is a classless wuss for pulling out of the Colonial. Screw him. I hope the Colonial never invites him back. >>

cmon give the guy the benefit of the doubt. If he said he promised his wife if he won he would take the next week off then so be it. So he wants to spend time with his family. I'm not faulting the guy for that.

Why is everybody busting his balls over this?

I bet over 90% of all the men on the PGA Tour feel the same way as he does but they don't have the balls to say because of perception and keeping there sponsors happy.

Drbio · 05-19-2003, 10:55 AM

I think it was a convenient excuse. I don't buy it.

But I'm sure he doesn't care since he's too bsuy counting his earnings from this weekend.

But Vijay is an idiot.

OutletPass · 05-19-2003, 01:52 PM

From Sports Illustrated:
Men should respect Annika Sorenstam's desire to compete
Posted: Monday May 19, 2003 1:05 PM

Nothing gets a male athlete's knickers in a twist faster than the prospect of serious competition from a woman. For evidence of that, we need look no further than golfer Vijay Singh, who reacted last week to Annika Sorenstam's intention to play in the Colonial Invitational, a PGA Tour event, as though it was a threat to our very republic.

In an apparent bid to get Spanky and Alfalfa to vote him in as president of the He-Man Woman Hater's Club, Singh spoke out against Sorenstam's plans to become the first woman in 58 years to compete on the PGA Tour, telling The Associated Press that "[Sorenstam] doesn't belong out here," and that he would refuse to play if he were paired with her. "This is a man's tour," he went on to say. "There are guys out there trying to make a living. It's not a ladies' tour."

Perhaps realizing he sounded like a Neanderthal, Singh later tried to soften his comments before finally withdrawing from this weekend's Colonial because, he said, he had promised his wife that if he won the Byron Nelson Championship, which he did on Sunday, he would take the week off. Although Singh insisted his withdrawal had nothing to do with the controversy, it's likely that he decided he didn't want to face the media's questions about Sorenstam, or Sorenstam herself. Calling for the exclusion of one woman and then hiding behind the skirt of another -- you've done our gender proud, Vijay. Thanks, man.

But Singh is not the only man who gets huffy when women try to compete on equal footing with men. We've heard John McEnroe insist that any of the top 100 male tennis players could beat Venus and Serena Williams, lest the Williams sisters get any crazy ideas. Most male NBA fans consider it their duty to scoff at the WNBA and declare it unwatchable. Men -- not all, but enough to make noise -- get so predictably defensive at the prospect of women entering their playing fields that you have to wonder whether the ladies do it partly to get a rise out of us. It's not hard to envision Sorenstam saying to a girlfriend, "Watch this. Let's see how many pompous male windbags put their foot in their mouths when they hear I'm playing a PGA event."

Attitudes like the one demonstrated by Singh -- who is not the only male golfer opposed to Sorenstam's entry, just the most vocal -- are especially unfortunate because you would expect athletes, even more than the rest of us, to welcome all comers. Sports are the closest thing we have to a meritocracy in America -- if you're good enough, you will succeed; and if you're not, you will be pushed out by someone who is. Athletes talk all the time about seeking and accepting challenges, about wanting to play and measure themselves against the best in their sport. It shouldn't be hard for them to understand that that's exactly what Sorenstam is doing. The male golfers in the tournament should applaud her for that -- and then go out and try to beat her, just as they would another man.

The men who finish behind Sorenstam in the Colonial -- and some of them surely will -- may be surprised to find that they won't have to immediately retire in disgrace. This isn't the third-grade playground; the public isn't going to point at them and chant, "You got beaten by a girrrl." The men should be intrigued, not threatened by this experiment. But maybe the only argument that has a chance to change their stance is this: Putting up a "No Girls Allowed" sign just isn't very manly.

Sports Illustrated senior writer Phil Taylor writes about a Hot Button topic every Monday on SI.com.

MFFL · 05-19-2003, 07:33 PM

<< Why is everybody busting his balls over this?

I bet over 90% of all the men on the PGA Tour feel the same way as he does but they don't have the balls to say because of perception and keeping there sponsors happy. >>

40 years ago the same rally cry was used to keep African Americans out of sports. Prejudice is pathetic.

OutletPass · 05-20-2003, 07:09 PM

Amen to that MFFL...Amen to that !

I second your remarks strongly !

Drbio · 05-20-2003, 10:16 PM

I would hope all of us would echo those sentiments. Dead on MFFL.

veruca salt · 05-21-2003, 06:03 PM

I just love how people hide behind "oh i'm worried about how it will make the LPGA look"
Excuse my language, but bullshit!
As if they give a crap how the LPGA looks, as long as they don't look stupid. I mean, imagine
if she finish *gasp* ahead of a.....MAN!

I'm with Dooby, I hope they never invite Vijay back.

Dooby · 05-22-2003, 09:52 AM

Annika -1 through 4. She started on the 10 tee. The tough holes are on the front 9.

Usually Lurkin · 05-22-2003, 11:15 AM

sorry mffl, but that's a dumb statement.

African Americans can (obviously) compete at the very top level in golf. So can any other race. Women can't. Maybe Annika will show up everybody and show us that women can win on the PGA just like African Americans can. But that's doubtful. She chose this course because it's specifically suited to her game. And what are her chances at winning?

The simple fact is: Annika is not good enough to seriously compete, and is playing for circus ratings, not for anything else.

I'm sure no one would have any problem with a woman qualifying for the PGA and taking her rightful place on the tour. I'm sure most of those 90% of the men who are afraid to object to Annika's playing would be more willing to see a woman on the tour under those circumstances.

That said, a sponsor's exemption is just that, an exemption. The sponsor wants circus ratings, so that's what they'll get. And I'm all for that. If they want to bring in an elephant or a robot to play, I'd watch that, too. But I'd rather see the elephant or robot qualify. Now that would be good golf.

Dooby · 05-22-2003, 11:18 AM

-1 through 8.

Dooby · 05-22-2003, 11:32 AM

-1 through 11, 14th place.

OutletPass · 05-22-2003, 11:56 AM

I mean, imagine

Well said Veruca....you don't have to imagine....she's beating up on a LOT of so-called men so far.

Go Annika !!!!!!

Usually Lurkin · 05-22-2003, 12:21 PM

Even Par after 14 holes. Tied for 34th.

Usually Lurkin · 05-22-2003, 12:28 PM

<< I mean, imagine

Well said Veruca....you don't have to imagine....she's beating up on a LOT of so-called men so far.

Go Annika !!!!!! >>

Gotta love the rampant sexism. If a man loses to a woman, then he's a "so-called" man?

Ummmmm Ok · 05-22-2003, 12:34 PM

The only thing I will say on the subject is that if she does make the cut, than her money that she makes because she made the cut, should go to the 1st male that didn't. He would have made the cut if Annika wasn't here and he shouldn't have to go without getting his dues for something he has worked hard for all year.

Just my .02 cents...

OutletPass · 05-22-2003, 12:59 PM

Sorry UL...to clarify...

I don't think that he's much of a man if he's got a problem playing against all-comers. a la VJ.

To those men who didn't have a problem with her being in the field, I say bravo.

And by the way it's the PGA (Professional Golfer's Association) not the MPGA. And she WAS invited .

Annika is not good enough to seriously compete

That's only your opinion. Looks like she's doing pretty well so far.

Usually Lurkin · 05-22-2003, 01:12 PM

Thanks for clarifying, OP.

<< Annika is not good enough to seriously compete
That's only your opinion. Looks like she's doing pretty well so far.[/i] >>

I meant for first place. She's five strokes off the lead right now with a bunch of good golfers just starting or about to start the course.

Doing "pretty well" on the course that best suits your game isn't much. Like I said, if she wants to legitimately qualify for the PGA, then she should be considered a PGA player (just like elephants and robots). Until then, she's there for the circus.

OutletPass · 05-22-2003, 01:19 PM

I do understand your point, UL...but here's mine.

There are a lot of men who are 5 strokes or more out of the lead. If they're not "seriously competitive" (your term)....should they be removed from the Tour. There are a lot of men on the tour who will NEVER seriously compete for a win.

Let's just enjoy what we've never seen before. Next thing you know, a woman will go through Q school and earn her card...maybe not this year or 5 years from now...but someday it will happen. unless the PGA changes their rules. Remember Babe Zaharias DID qualify for the LA Open back in the day.

I do agree that it's become a circus...but so has the whole hype about LeBron. There have been many "circuses" before in the Sports world.

Let's just sit back with our popcorn and see how it plays out.

UL...Do you have any idea of what last place money will be ? I haven't heard.

Usually Lurkin · 05-22-2003, 01:39 PM

<< There are a lot of men who are 5 strokes or more out of the lead. If they're not "seriously competitive" (your term)....should they be removed from the Tour. There are a lot of men on the tour who will NEVER seriously compete for a win. >>

They qualified.

<< Next thing you know, a woman will go through Q school and earn her card...maybe not this year or 5 years from now...but someday it will happen. unless the PGA changes their rules. >>

I thought I saw a blip about a high-schooler (female) who's trying to get her card now. That would be great.

<< UL...Do you have any idea of what last place money will be ? I haven't heard. >>

Charlotte observer says about $10,000.
http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlot...lf/5829265.htm

Johan van Vuuren is 980th on this years money list with $177. Wow.

Usually Lurkin · 05-22-2003, 01:40 PM

Looks like Annika finishes 1 over at 71. Pretty close to her goal (even Par) and what folks have been projecting the cut to be.

OutletPass · 05-22-2003, 01:42 PM

Thanks for the discussion and the info UL...always enjoy and appreciate it.

If I remember correctly, Vegas set the over/under on her first round score at 76 or so.

Usually Lurkin · 05-22-2003, 01:57 PM

Sure thing, OP.

If we're watching again for the next round, lets move it to a colonial thread instead of under a Singh thread.

OutletPass · 05-22-2003, 02:10 PM

You got it.

MFFL · 05-22-2003, 05:06 PM

<< sorry mffl, but that's a dumb statement.

African Americans can (obviously) compete at the very top level in golf. So can any other race. Women can't. >>

Your opinion. Probably incorrect. Golf doesn't require the raw muscle power of football or basketball - it is mostly a precision game. And Annika can outdrive a lot of men on the tour RIGHT NOW.

<< Maybe Annika will show up everybody and show us that women can win on the PGA just like African Americans can. But that's doubtful. She chose this course because it's specifically suited to her game. And what are her chances at winning? >>

What is anyone's chance of winning a tournament if their name isn't Tiger Woods? She has a shot which is as much as half the field can say. And yes she chose a good course for her, why not? Would you make it more difficult on yourself if you were in the situation? If you want to try something then you try it under the most favorable conditions. Duh.

<< The simple fact is: Annika is not good enough to seriously compete, and is playing for circus ratings, not for anything else. >>

Your opinion. Probably incorrect. Are you SO sexist that you can't conceive of a WOMAN being hyper-competitive?

<< I'm sure no one would have any problem with a woman qualifying for the PGA and taking her rightful place on the tour. I'm sure most of those 90% of the men who are afraid to object to Annika's playing would be more willing to see a woman on the tour under those circumstances. >>

Your opinion. Probably incorrect. Most of the men on the tour would not want women on the tour because it makes it harder for the men to make money.

<< That said, a sponsor's exemption is just that, an exemption. The sponsor wants circus ratings, so that's what they'll get. And I'm all for that. If they want to bring in an elephant or a robot to play, I'd watch that, too. But I'd rather see the elephant or robot qualify. Now that would be good golf. >>

Annaka plays good golf. She's not a circus act.