Official: Tim Thomas to Dallas - A part of me dies inside. - Page 5 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

SMC0007 · 07-28-2009, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Tim Thomas is not the 7th,8th or 9th best player on this team. He has his spurts here in there but more likely than not he's on bum status for the majority of the game. These are the type of players we need to stay away from. Guys who just don't give the effort night in and night out.

Five-ofan · 07-28-2009, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Tim Thomas = a-hole who talks a lot

Ron Artest = a-hole who can back it up on the court

3 years ago that was true, artest is the most overrated player in the nba right now. Hes a poor defender and a poor offensive player who dominates the ball.

mavErika · 07-28-2009, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nowitzki4President

I just realized something that scared the sh!t out of me...

I think that Gooden is going to get more minutes as Center than anticipated. Word is Hollins is out. Which would make us like like Damp/Gooden and Dirk/Thomas in the C and PF positions. Augh!

IMO, that is worse than what we had last year, which was Damp/Hollins and Dirk/Bass.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I'm so glad that we're going for the likes of Gooden and Tim Thomas over scrubs like Okafur.

You know, a blind, monkey, wombat that is half paralyzed and really let itself go could see that we needed a center. I mean, if Gortat was seriously the ONLY plan to get a center. Why? Gortat isn't the last center on earth. I mean jiminy christmas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpb319

Now we need to clean up the extra bodies and the Buck Shot for one more versatile player at the SG position.

With the FO being ready to let Hollins go if he receives an offer above $1million, you'd have too think they are really focused on getting a quality center via trade. It's clear at least one more trade is coming, as there are still too many contracts on the Mavs' payroll, most of them desirable trade assets, not talent-wise, but expirings and the buck-shot.

Then we have the Dust-Chip, and the FO must be ready to use it if the opportunity opens up, maybe even before the next offseason. The reward for Dampier's expiring is not necessarily a center and it cannot be banked on to get Chris Bosh(if that's whom they want the most, although not a center either). So if there is the chance to consummate a midseason-deal, converting Dampier into let's say Joe Johnson, we would be left with Dirk and Gooden at the 5 as it stands now. I think that would cut into the overall enthusiasm of getting JJ as soon as they play against a team with a scoring PF/C.

Since the MBT surprised this offseason with some wise foresight(of course besides the broken Gortat dream, but almost nobody saw Orlando matching), I cannot believe they would set themselves up to that sort of scenario.

That's why I think they are pretty confident in getting a Center with what they've left in a trade. The one thing that leads to a little discomfort with that idea is that we have to wait until mid-september before we're able to use the buck-shot, and that it might be hard to find a team willing and able to fill like 3-4 rosterspots that late in the offseason. Let's say we bundle a Buckner/Williams/HUmphries/Jawai package, the trade partner must not have more than 17 players currently under contract and must be willing to cut most of that package before the season starts, as their roster probably would be pretty much set at this point. But I honestly believe the MBT is able to overcome such difficulties and that we'll have a new center in mavs-blue before the season starts, who's going to compete for the starting job. I just hope they don't need to give away Terry or Howard for that kind of player.

JamesVE · 07-28-2009, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

And Im pretty amazed that he continues to be a good/great 3pt shooter. If he can come in and be 2009/2010s version of the Walt "the Wizard" Williams, then Im actually pretty supportive of this.

Man, I nearly completely forgot about that guy. I remember he had the most completely unexpected monster dunk ever. Can't remember what team, but I wanna say it was in the playoffs even?

Dtownsfinest · 07-28-2009, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesVE

Man, I nearly completely forgot about that guy. I remember he had the most completely unexpected monster dunk ever. Can't remember what team, but I wanna say it was in the playoffs even?

I liked Walt's game. I thought he was amazing in that Kings series. It was a shame he wasn't younger.

Dtownsfinest · 07-28-2009, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Career: 43.6%/36.9%/75.7%....21pp48, 7.6rp48, 1.3sp48
Last yr: 43.2%/41.3%/73.6%...21pp48, 7.6rp48, 1.2sp48

He's washed up, or as you say it, "turned to s@#t"? Looks like his numbers are pretty much on par with the rest of his career.

And Im pretty amazed that he continues to be a good/great 3pt shooter. If he can come in and be 2009/2010s version of the Walt "the Wizard" Williams, then Im actually pretty supportive of this.

What the hell is that? Are those his per 48 minute stats? I hate when people bring that up. As if the guy would actually put that up in 48 minutes. He was a bum for the Bulls last season. He's not as worthless as Carroll since he can actually hit a 3 but his laziness puts him on par with Carroll's worthlessness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Roll your eyes all you want but Tim Thomas wasn't even the 7th-9th best player on that Bulls team last season.

JamesVE · 07-28-2009, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

He's not as worthless as Carroll since he can actually hit a 3 but his laziness puts him on par with Carroll's worthlessness.

lol, so, so true..

Dtownsfinest · 07-28-2009, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesVE

lol, so, so true..

What in the hell happened to Carroll? There was a point where he was a double figure a game scorer even if it was for the Bobcats. Did he just forget how to play? Or shoot for that matter? Goodness.

twistaeffect2004 · 07-28-2009, 01:21 PM

LOL, this board is nuts. I can understand not liking the guy, but is it really this big of a deal?

Literally 2 weeks ago this team was on it's way to contending.. now looking at this thread, it seems we're back to "LETS BLOW IT UP".

The ups and downs fans go through in a short amount of time is utterly fantastic. You're probably getting yourselves worked up for nothing. If he hits a couple threes, when he comes into the game, then he's done his job.

badfish22 · 07-28-2009, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twistaeffect2004

LOL, this board is nuts. I can understand not liking the guy, but is it really this big of a deal?

Literally 2 weeks ago this team was on it's way to contending.. now looking at this thread, it seems we're back to "LETS BLOW IT UP".

The ups and downs fans go through in a short amount of time is utterly fantastic. You're probably getting yourselves worked up for nothing. If he hits a couple threes, when he comes into the game, then he's done his job.

Its just the fact that he's a loser. I don't like people like that on my team, epically when they don't seem to care about winning.

SMC0007 · 07-28-2009, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badfish22

Its just the fact that he's a loser. I don't like people like that on my team, epically when they don't seem to care about winning.

What makes him a loser? He's a Mav now and nothing is going to change that for a bit at least. Last time I checked not very much winning going on for anyone here, if your talking titles!

So you could eliminate everyone who hasn't won a ring on our team?

Or, you could maybe leave out Dirk and Kidd and anyone else that you can tell with your super sense of who really wants to win. This could actually make an interesting list.

bernardos70 · 07-28-2009, 01:53 PM

No talk of blowup here. Just finding out that your favorite perfect 10 model got her boobs done (Marion) then finding out she has aids (Gooden) and an Adam's apple (TThomas).

jthig32 · 07-28-2009, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bernardos70

No talk of blowup here. Just finding out that your favorite perfect 10 model got her boobs done (Marion) then finding out she has aids (Gooden) and an Adam's apple (TThomas).

Post of the year. Right here. I'm going to create fake accounts just so I can rec this post 100 times.

LonghornDub · 07-28-2009, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bernardos70

No talk of blowup here. Just finding out that your favorite perfect 10 model got her boobs done (Marion) then finding out she has aids (Gooden) and an Adam's apple (TThomas).

Personally I'd say Thomas is the AIDS, but whatever.

LSMF · 07-28-2009, 02:18 PM

I hate him very very much but people are really making a big deal out of this to be honest. Lets just hope he can come into the game and knock some shots down. Its not like were depending on him to be a 20 ppg scorer or something, if he happens to be a cancer though im sure we can just give him the Shawne williams treatment and banish him.

dirno2000 · 07-28-2009, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

First of all, the notion that Dirk hates Tim Thomas is almost certainly false. And I wouldn't really care if he did.

However, this move sucks. And I'm not backing down on this one either. This is stupid. I don't care about numbers (although they suck), I don't care about matchups, I don't care about rotations.

Anyone who has watched the NBA over the past ten years knows that Tim Thomas is a loser. He's a loser. He doesn't care about competing night in and night out, he doesn't care about putting in an effort defensively, he doesn't care about playing within a system. He's a chucker, he's lazy, and he has no business on a team trying to win. He is the antithesis of Dirk in every imaginable way.

Period.

Trying to talk yourself into Tim Thomas based on stats and rotations is, imo, ridiculous.

This....sucks.

Those are not luke warm.

I'm not going to defend this guy's character or motor. He's stolen a lot of money over the years no doubt about it. I would, however, point out that while his career PER is somewhere around 12 or 13 his playoff per is 17 and his playoff 3-point fg% is 44%. That's in 55 games. Now granted he hasn't played a meaningful role for a playoff team since 2006 but as much as we all hated him I'm sure we can agree that he was a bitch to play against that year. My point is that while he may be the biggest waste of talent in the past two decades (or at least top 10), when he wants to turn it on he can. I don't want to have to say that about one of my top 6 or 7 players but if I can get that kind of ability at the end of my bench for about $1.5MM it's a risk I'm willing to take.

LSMF · 07-28-2009, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

Those are not luke warm.

I'm not going to defend this guy's character or motor. He's stolen a lot of money over the years no doubt about it. I would, however, point out that while his career PER is somewhere around 12 or 13 his playoff per is 17 and his playoff 3-point fg% is 44%. That's in 55 games. Now granted he hasn't played a meaningful role for a playoff team since 2006 but as much as we all hated him I'm sure we can agree that he was a bitch to play against that year. My point is that while he may be the biggest waste of talent in the past two decades (or at least top 10), when he wants to turn it on he can. I don't want to have to say that about one of my top 6 or 7 players but if I can get that kind of ability at the end of my bench for about $1.5MM it's a risk I'm willing to take.

Exactly. As long as he's not a cancer he'll be good to have at the end of the bench.

jthig32 · 07-28-2009, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

Those are not luke warm.

I'm not going to defend this guy's character or motor. He's stolen a lot of money over the years no doubt about it. I would, however, point out that while his career PER is somewhere around 12 or 13 his playoff per is 17 and his playoff 3-point fg% is 44%. That's in 55 games. Now granted he hasn't played a meaningful role for a playoff team since 2006 but as much as we all hated him I'm sure we can agree that he was a bitch to play against that year. My point is that while he may be the biggest waste of talent in the past two decades (or at least top 10), when he wants to turn it on he can. I don't want to have to say that about one of my top 6 or 7 players but if I can get that kind of ability at the end of my bench for about $1.5MM it's a risk I'm willing to take.

This is the best defense of the move I've seen yet. Well done.

I'm still of the opinion that I just don't want people like him on my team. But you make a good point.

EricaLubarsky · 07-28-2009, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

What the hell is that? Are those his per 48 minute stats? I hate when people bring that up. As if the guy would actually put that up in 48 minutes.

My argument was not that he could put up those numbers in 48 minutes of play. He has never been close to playing 48 minutes. My point was to completely contradict your statement that

Quote:

{Thomas is } A worthless player who use to be good who's turned into sh**.

the guy is putting up nearly identical per minute and percentage stats as well as PER stats as he ever has. If you want to talk about his character, personality, worth ethic, annoying habit of talking trash then go for it. If you want to make up fake stats that he's somehow lost all productivity then dispute the stats...

LSMF · 07-28-2009, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

My argument was not that he could put up those numbers in 48 minutes of play. He has never been close to playing 48 minutes. My point was to completely contradict your statement that

the guy is putting up nearly identical per minute and percentage stats as well as PER stats as he ever has. If you want to talk about his character, personality, worth ethic, annoying habit of talking trash then go for it. If you want to make up fake stats that he's somehow lost all productivity then dispute the stats...

Good stuff, you will be rewarded for this post!

Dnowit41 · 07-28-2009, 03:20 PM

Give him a chance. He can be efficient when he wants to. Maybe this is the year.

sike · 07-28-2009, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

I seriously doubt that Dirk hates Tim Thomas any more than Kobe hates Artest. Most on court stuff like that doesn't linger. Just something that happened in the heat of battle. Dirk laughed it off at the time so it's unlikely that he harbors any ill will towards Thomas now.

Besides the fact that our roster seem really crowded with forwards I don't have a problem with the signing. He's not a player you want to depend on but he has the ability get hot and carry the offensive load for a quarter or two at any given time. That's not bad for your 9th or 10th man.

ahhh a voice of reason.

sike · 07-28-2009, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Looking at the Mavs' minute distribution in the playoffs last season and thinking about how it might look with the current roster (including Gooden and TT) instead of the one the Mavs actually had available. Three things:

1) Wright and Bass, undoubtedly the two most significant subtractions, combined for just under 36mpg in the playoffs. That sounds like it's just about the right amount of time on court for Marion, and that is a sizable upgrade for the Mavs at the top of the rotation.

2) Hollins, who appears likely to head elsewhere much to the chagrin of a number of overly sentimental Dallas fans, played 9.3 mpg. Worst case scenario now would appear to be that those minutes go to Drew Gooden. There's something to be said for having a center available to play the center position, but you're kidding yourself if you think Gooden won't bring a lot more to the table than Hollins would have. Another clear upgrade.

3) Gerald Green and Matt Carroll combined for just under 8 mpg. Those minutes now go to TT, presumably, and perhaps Ross, and that is also all to the good.

Now, there will be other minute shifts, but if you trust Carlisle then at least you can trust that if Gooden plays 20+ mpg it'll be because he's earned 20+ mpg. Bottom line, while the two (potential) newest Mavericks unquestionably leave something to be desired, let's not lose sight of the fact that with those signings the Mavs will have achieved upgrades throughout their rotation, from the core down to the fringe guys. Put it all in context and this figures to be a much improved team.

another voice of reason

jthig32 · 07-28-2009, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

another voice of reason

So the voices of reasons are the ones that agree with you?

Just checking.

sike · 07-28-2009, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

So the voices of reasons are the ones that agree with you?

just not the ones jumping....

sike · 07-28-2009, 03:58 PM

First off, I CAN'T STAND Tim Thomas...

Secondly, as soon as he hits 4 threes in a game while making some nice passes to Dirk or Marion, he will be totally beloved.

A great option to have at the deep end of the bench.

badfish22 · 07-28-2009, 04:22 PM

Ok after calming down a bit from last night, things aren't that bad. As much as I hate TT if he just plays about 6-8 min. a game, I can live with him. Fisher says he thinks the Mavs have looked into getting Dalembert. If we get him our rotation is...
Kidd/JJB/Roddy
J-ho/Terry/Ross
Marion/J-ho/TT
Dirk/Gooden/Marion
Dalembert/Damp/Gooden

And I will give this offseason an A+

IF we fail to get him, or a different starting C, I still we be pretty excited about next year.

mavErika · 07-28-2009, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quietsavant

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Tim Thomas & Drew Gooden combine for 16 teams in 19 seasons...

('nuff said!)

haha. maybe they can help RC with strategy and calls from coaches in half of the league.

if only Drew could remember those play calls...

mavs777 · 07-28-2009, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

What the hell is that? Are those his per 48 minute stats? I hate when people bring that up. As if the guy would actually put that up in 48 minutes. He was a bum for the Bulls last season. He's not as worthless as Carroll since he can actually hit a 3 but his laziness puts him on par with Carroll's worthlessness.

Roll your eyes all you want but Tim Thomas wasn't even the 7th-9th best player on that Bulls team last season.

He was their 8th guy

Dirkadirkastan · 07-28-2009, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

What the hell is that? Are those his per 48 minute stats? I hate when people bring that up. As if the guy would actually put that up in 48 minutes.

It appears you don't understand the point of the per-48 stat. It's a normalizing technique that takes mpg out of the picture so that efficiencies of different players can be matched.

If you have two guys that produce 10/10 a night, they may seem equal until you realize one plays 24 mpg and the other plays 36. The per-48 stat gives the first guy 20/20 per 48 and the second gets 13.3/13.3. It quantifies the difference without having to explicitly state the minutes. The 48 itself doesn't really matter; you could just as well create a per-24 stat or a per-1 stat. It's entirely arbitrary, but 48 minutes is the standard because it's the number of minutes in the game.

It's not the universal omniscient stat. It doesn't specify a player's usage or endurance or anything like that. It's used exclusively to determine efficiency.

LonghornDub · 07-28-2009, 05:31 PM

FYI, it's official--Thomas has signed. One of you mods can go ahead and change the thread title at your leisure.

http://mavs.beloblog.com

Mavsfan4ever · 07-28-2009, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badfish22

Ok after calming down a bit from last night, things aren't that bad. As much as I hate TT if he just plays about 6-8 min. a game, I can live with him. Fisher says he thinks the Mavs have looked into getting Dalembert. If we get him our rotation is...
Kidd/JJB/Roddy
J-ho/Ross
Marion/J-ho/TT
Dirk/Gooden/Marion
Dalembert/Damp/Gooden

And I will give this offseason an A+

IF we fail to get him, or a different starting C, I still we be pretty excited about next year.

If we get Dalembert I will be extremely happy. The man was one of my top four choice for us at center.

grndmstr_c · 07-28-2009, 05:57 PM

Two comments, the first in line with dirno's earlier post about TT's playoff PER.

1) The three significant talent additions this offseason (Marion, TT and Gooden) have all played significant roles (30+ mpg) for their teams in deep playoff runs to the conference finals or beyond, and have posted career postseason averages of 17 and 11, 13 and 5, and 11 and 8, respectively. I don't think those facts were lost on the front office when they were weighing options for resource allocation.

2) Re: the comments about the abundance of forwards on the roster, I have to say that I like it. In fact, if you're expecting to play significant minutes without a true center on the floor (and it looks like the Mavs will probably be doing just that for 24+ mpg next season), I'd argue the smartest thing you could do would be to compensate by rolling out lineups that feature multiple players with good size and/or rebounding ability (who aren't offensive zeroes). Between Kidd, Josh as a SG or SF, TT as a SF, Marion at either forward spot, Dirk, and Gooden (and perhaps even Singleton if he stays) the Mavs will be able to throw out a range of different lineups that, although they lack a true center, should nonetheless be able to win the rebounding game even in matchups against teams with traditional centers. It's largely for this reason that TT can be argued to make more sense than guys like Wafer or McCants on this team. He fits right into (what I perceive to be) a very deliberate strategy of compensating for the lack of a second center (and perhaps also for the presence of JJB and JET) by manufacturing size advantages elsewhere on the floor.

Jon Avalon · 07-28-2009, 06:00 PM

" Thomas signed a one-year deal, and the Mavs didn't use any of their midlevel exception or bi-annual exception to get him "

http://mavsblog.dallasnews.com/archi...as-it-get.html

Hmmm interesting, so we still have the left over of the MLE and our BAE? Awesome if we still have both of those.

Nowitzki4President · 07-28-2009, 06:07 PM

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that if we get a legit center at this point we have one of the top 4 starting 5's in the league, and the deepest bench making us contenders. Any disagreements here?

EricaLubarsky · 07-28-2009, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Avalon

" Thomas signed a one-year deal, and the Mavs didn't use any of their midlevel exception or bi-annual exception to get him "

http://mavsblog.dallasnews.com/archi...as-it-get.html

Hmmm interesting, so we still have the left over of the MLE and our BAE? Awesome if we still have both of those.

Wow Tim Thomas for the vet minimum is a steal. He may not be everyones favorite, but coming off a 6.5million/year contract, veteran minimum (1.3mil for him) is awesome. Plus it means we still have:

1.3m of the MLE
1.99m of the BAE

and some pieces to trade

mavs777 · 07-28-2009, 06:10 PM

Good signing, a reliable three point threat

mavs777 · 07-28-2009, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Wow Tim Thomas for the vet minimum is a steal. He may not be everyones favorite, but coming off a 6.5million/year contract, veteran minimum is awesome. Plus we still have

1.3m of the MLE
1.99 of the BAE

This makes no sense, so if we get Marco Jaric (sp?) for MLE it is a good move just because he is making like 8 per? This is a good value because he is worth more than vet minimum by his play, not because of what he made last year

Robillion · 07-28-2009, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badfish22

Ok after calming down a bit from last night, things aren't that bad. As much as I hate TT if he just plays about 6-8 min. a game, I can live with him. Fisher says he thinks the Mavs have looked into getting Dalembert. If we get him our rotation is...
Kidd/JJB/Roddy
J-ho/Ross
Marion/J-ho/TT
Dirk/Gooden/Marion
Dalembert/Damp/Gooden

And I will give this offseason an A+

IF we fail to get him, or a different starting C, I still we be pretty excited about next year.

I would not call trading Terry for Dalembert along with everything else this summer an A+... If you didn't mean that, then you are missing a our 2nd best offensive player up there buddy

. We would go from a shooting team to only having 1 or 2 "shooters"..

EricaLubarsky · 07-28-2009, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

This makes no sense, so if we get Marco Jaric (sp?) for MLE it is a good move just because he is making like 8 per? This is a good value because he is worth more than vet minimum by his play, not because of what he made last year

If we got someone with talent for cheap and and less than they used to be asking, I'd say its a good move.Plus getting a vet that can play without using any of your exception money...is a good deal.