The mandatory thread that isnt even worthy of thread (goodengate) - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

darkwitzki · 11-04-2009, 01:23 AM

Gooden : Yo Rudy Gay ! You will not score on me!..
Rudy : I'll sue for using a homosexual slur !

chumdawg · 11-04-2009, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

I may be unique in this, but I don't believe in thought crimes.

Say I beat you up on the street like that. In my (actual) personal opinion, it doesn't matter whether it was because I don't like your skin color, I don't like your sexual orientation, or you took my beer. They're all equal crimes and I should be punished for the violence accordingly. That's why I think the story is irrelevant. It has nothing to do with the word choices.

The difference is in the participation--willfull or not--of the other guy. If you get in a fight in a bar because he took your beer or whatever else, we assume that he is at least in some part a participant in the confrontation. If you jack a guy just because he's black, though, he didn't seem to have any means to avoid that fight.

If it helps to look at this way, then please do. Do you think assaulting a girl is the same thing as assualting a guy? Same crime, as you said, right? If you think that way, your point of view may be defensible on some logical grounds, but I myself wouldn't be that interested in hearing about it.

Dirkadirkastan · 11-04-2009, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

The difference is in the participation--willfull or not--of the other guy. If you get in a fight in a bar because he took your beer or whatever else, we assume that he is at least in some part a participant in the confrontation. If you jack a guy just because he's black, though, he didn't seem to have any means to avoid that fight.

Well okay, bad example. What if I fight you because you're rich?

Quote:

If it helps to look at this way, then please do. Do you think assaulting a girl is the same thing as assualting a guy? Same crime, as you said, right? If you think that way, your point of view may be defensible on some logical grounds, but I myself wouldn't be that interested in hearing about it.

I was claiming it was independent of motivation; I said nothing of the object of attack. So what IS the law on that?

chumdawg · 11-04-2009, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

I was claiming it was independent of motivation; I said nothing of the object of attack. So what IS the law on that?

I don't know how you can separate "motivation" and "the object of attack." I don't know the law in and out, but I think the purpose of laws against hate crimes is to serve as a deterrent against those crimes. Basically, the idea is that hate crimes that one might commit are crimes that one might not commit if the hate did not exist. You can't stop the hate, but you can try to prevent the crime.

That's all there is to it. We're just trying to be more civil.

SMC0007 · 11-04-2009, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkwitzki

Gooden : Yo Rudy Gay ! You will not score on me!..
Rudy : I'll sue for using a homosexual slur !

I see what you did there. "Won't score on me."

What if GAY slammed it home and came down on Goodens back? Could GAY be sued?

Just211 · 11-04-2009, 11:37 AM

I'm more bothered that people are so ready to blow thw whistle and tattle on people. grow up.
I was taught name calling was immature in junior high, but learned not to tattle in Kindergarten

but i still enjoy name calling......

92bDad · 11-04-2009, 11:57 AM

I'm sick and tired of all this PC cr*p!!!

Look, when will these intolerant people be more tolerant of others choice of lifestyle?

I choose to be straight and I choose to make jokes...in some cases at the expense of Gays/Lesbians. In other cases about straight people, heck I even make fun of the French (For the record, I AM French) However French heritage is not a choice, I was born French - American.

However, one CHOOSES to participate in activities to have themselves labeled as Gay or Straight. It's a CHOICE!!! Thus, when one chooses to live the Gay/Lesbian Lifestyle, they are aware of the negative consequences that this brings. If you want to life that lifestyle then accept the full package.

STOP being intolerant of others and trying to force others to condone your choice. Hey, you made your bed, you sleep in it...along with Adam and Steve for all I care.

The fact that Gooden made a "Gay Slur"...big freakin deal!!! What, now we have to have PC for every type of slur known to man. Does that mean, I can't make French Jokes anymore...oh wait, do we simply remove all jokes, after all they offend somebody or something.

If you choose to be Gay, then so be it, be loud be proud and deal with the fact that some of us are laughing at you and we also LOUD and PROUD.

Tolerate...it swings both ways :-)

SMC0007 · 11-04-2009, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 92bDad

I'm sick and tired of all this PC cr*p!!!

Look, when will these intolerant people be more tolerant of others choice of lifestyle?

I choose to be straight and I choose to make jokes...in some cases at the expense of Gays/Lesbians. In other cases about straight people, heck I even make fun of the French (For the record, I AM French) However French heritage is not a choice, I was born French - American.

However, one CHOOSES to participate in activities to have themselves labeled as Gay or Straight. It's a CHOICE!!! Thus, when one chooses to live the Gay/Lesbian Lifestyle, they are aware of the negative consequences that this brings. If you want to life that lifestyle then accept the full package.

STOP being intolerant of others and trying to force others to condone your choice. Hey, you made your bed, you sleep in it...along with Adam and Steve for all I care.

The fact that Gooden made a "Gay Slur"...big freakin deal!!! What, now we have to have PC for every type of slur known to man. Does that mean, I can't make French Jokes anymore...oh wait, do we simply remove all jokes, after all they offend somebody or something.

If you choose to be Gay, then so be it, be loud be proud and deal with the fact that some of us are laughing at you and we also LOUD and PROUD.

Tolerate...it swings both ways :-)

Yeah, Thats what we've heard

Usually Lurkin · 11-04-2009, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

The difference is in the participation--willfull or not--of the other guy. .

so is Gooden's thought crime less heinous because the other guy thought crimed him and his friends first, all game long?

92bDad · 11-04-2009, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

so is Gooden's thought crime less heinous because the other guy thought crimed him and his friends first, all game long?

Being as Gooden's crime was no crime at all, then it can't be less heinous, as less than -0- is still -0-

It's not like Gooden *itch slapped the flaming fools.

By the way, has it been established, are the so-called victims in question gay or not gay? If they are, then why aren't they proud of what they are? If they are not, then I understand why they are upset for being called a wimpy name.

Either way, there's just a bit too much estrogen for me...time for me to climb back into my "Straight Closet"

fluid.forty.one · 11-04-2009, 02:30 PM

The dude is being paid millions of dollars to play for and represent the Mavericks. He can keep his f*cking mouth shut and act like a professional. End of story.

Dirkadirkastan · 11-04-2009, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

The dude is being paid millions of dollars to play for and represent the Mavericks. He can keep his f*cking mouth shut and act like a professional. End of story.

Of course he has no business barking at a fan. But the term "homophobic slur" in the ensuing sob story is going overboard.

fluid.forty.one · 11-04-2009, 02:43 PM

Well it's obviously a slur... maybe not homophobic in the sense that Gooden hates gay people, but it's still not very appropriate. People use "nigga" in a way that does not mean "inferior slave black man" but it's still a racist thing to say.

Usually Lurkin · 11-04-2009, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

Well it's obviously a slur... maybe not homophobic in the sense that Gooden hates gay people, but it's still not very appropriate. People use "nigga" in a way that does not mean "inferior slave black man" but it's still a racist thing to say.

what if you are saying it to a friend about a white guy? And what you mean is "jerk whose been yelling insults in my ear for 2 hours."

Jack.Kerr · 11-04-2009, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

what if you are saying it to a friend about a white guy? And what you mean is "jerk whose been yelling insults in my ear for 2 hours."

Let's see.....how about....."JERK!"

Why use a slur that is related to putting down gay men? Why is the insult quotient better when you slur a minority group?

More to the point, why are you (or anyone else) defending the acceptability of slurring a minority group?

iella · 11-04-2009, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

Let's see.....how about....."JERK!"

Why use a slur that is related to putting down gay men? Why is the insult quotient better when you slur a minority group?

More to the point, why are you (or anyone else) defending the acceptability of slurring a minority group?

What if your unmarried, girlfriend-less white guy friend doesn't appreciate being hit with a slur that was used to describe people once thought mentally ill for getting off with Mr. Hand?

The point is, anybody can be offended by anything if they have an agenda to be offended. Sure, we can treat some insults as being better or worse than others, but someone walking around with a huge group-identity chip on their shoulder (because they're white, or black, or straight, or gay, or liberal, or conservative, or atheist, or religious, or any other part of their identity that they've been taught gives them privileges to take special offense and accuse others of persecution) is going to take offense at pretty much anything you say.

The solution: if you can't say nothing nice, don't say nothing at all. Alternatively, grow a pair and don't try to give out what you can't take yourself.

Usually Lurkin · 11-04-2009, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

Let's see.....how about....."JERK!"

Why use a slur that is related to putting down gay men? Why is the insult quotient better when you slur a minority group?

More to the point, why are you (or anyone else) defending the acceptability of slurring a minority group?

I'm not. I just think that the slurring here was referencing the individual, and was for his behavior. It's a poor case for getting up in arms over minority issues. If the guy complaining was, indeed homosexual, or we knew that Gooden thought he was, or if we knew that Gooden meant anything other than "jerk," that'd be different. On the surface, by "faggot" Gooden meant "that guy that was insulting us for 2 hours." If he also meant to imply "that's what homosexuals do." Then he's an idiot, not insulting.

I also think that the guy complaining was as much in the wrong as Gooden was. The insults he was slinging were easily as offensive as what Gooden said. It's one guy behaving badly in response to another guy behaving badly, and as someone pointed out above, we usually tend to cut the second guy a little slack.

I also think that if Gooden wants to be a jerk, he should feel free to be a jerk when his jerkiness is in a comment directed to a friend, and especially when it is in response to 2 hours worth of insulting behavior directed at him and his friends.

He cursed at a guy. It is *not* like he punched him, or threatened him, or chased him, or endangered him, or made him feel endangered. Again, if you insult someone for 2 hours, you should expect to be cursed at in response.

bernardos70 · 11-04-2009, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I see what you did there. "Won't score on me."

What if GAY slammed it home and came down on Goodens back? Could GAY be sued?

I'm pretty sure he would. And I'm pretty sure that if Gooden drained one in Gay's face that that wouldn't be reason enough for a lawsuit. Double standard if you aks me.

SMC0007 · 11-04-2009, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

Let's see.....how about....."JERK!"

Why use a slur that is related to putting down gay men? Why is the insult quotient better when you slur a minority group?

More to the point, why are you (or anyone else) defending the acceptability of slurring a minority group?

Jerk. That is a very unimpactful word, and it never works. "You have been messing with me for the entire game and won't shush it, You sir are a darn JERK!" LOL

This topic and thread is like a wild fire, flaming on out of control.

IMO being gay is a choice. Race is not. If I were black I could see being offended by someone calling me the N word. But if I were gay I wouldn't put much stock into what people called me if I chose to be public with my preference. Is it mean to call people any name? Sure, is it reason to take it to extremes and form organizations to report things like this to and bring down anyone who does? I don't think so. I don't care to try and fully understand why some people are so damn sensitive to certian things like this.

OttoOC · 11-04-2009, 07:02 PM

Being gay is actually not a choice, and the amount of ignorance and bigotry in this thread is astounding.

Big laugh at 92bDad for disguising his post as 'tolerance'.

ShaggyDirk · 11-04-2009, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 92bDad

I'm sick and tired of all this PC cr*p!!!

Look, when will these intolerant people be more tolerant of others choice of lifestyle?

I choose to be straight and I choose to make jokes...in some cases at the expense of Gays/Lesbians. In other cases about straight people, heck I even make fun of the French (For the record, I AM French) However French heritage is not a choice, I was born French - American.

However, one CHOOSES to participate in activities to have themselves labeled as Gay or Straight. It's a CHOICE!!! Thus, when one chooses to live the Gay/Lesbian Lifestyle, they are aware of the negative consequences that this brings. If you want to life that lifestyle then accept the full package.

STOP being intolerant of others and trying to force others to condone your choice. Hey, you made your bed, you sleep in it...along with Adam and Steve for all I care.

The fact that Gooden made a "Gay Slur"...big freakin deal!!! What, now we have to have PC for every type of slur known to man. Does that mean, I can't make French Jokes anymore...oh wait, do we simply remove all jokes, after all they offend somebody or something.

If you choose to be Gay, then so be it, be loud be proud and deal with the fact that some of us are laughing at you and we also LOUD and PROUD.

Tolerate...it swings both ways :-)

let me guess... you believe we should send all gays and lesbians to a anti-homo clinic where medieval torture and lots of holy water sprinkled on their heads will instantaneously zap them back to the cold dark place that you seem to be living your pathetic life.

you're an idiot by the way.

Lor20 · 11-04-2009, 07:28 PM

wow.... this is why these kind of threads always get out of hand. Politics and ethics are the two topics that always seem to get people going.
That being said... Gooden should not say anything offensive to any fan... he's getting paid to be a role model. Is it a big deal? not really...

One more thing - hate crimes are worse than otherwise motivated crimes because you are much more likely to repeat them. Much in the same way as sex offenders.
It's not that the crime is actually worse - but the justice system has to weight the danger for society in its sentencing.

Underdog · 11-04-2009, 07:55 PM

If being gay isn't a choice then explain bisexuals to me...

(not that it matters anyway - religion is a choice too, but it's still considered a hate crime if you discriminate/attack someone because of their beliefs...)

OttoOC · 11-04-2009, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

If being gay isn't a choice then explain bisexuals to me...

There's nothing to explain and that makes no sense.

Go be gay for a week and let me know how it goes.

Underdog · 11-04-2009, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OttoOC

There's nothing to explain and that makes no sense.

Go be gay for a week and let me know how it goes.

What makes no sense, the existence of bisexuals in a world where sexual preference is predetermined before birth?

It's gotta be a willing choice - telling me to be gay for a week is kinda like telling me to be Muslim for a week... If I'm not interested, then I'm probably not willing...

OttoOC · 11-04-2009, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

What makes no sense, the existence of bisexuals in a world where sexual preference is predetermined before birth?

It's gotta be a willing choice - telling me to be gay for a week is kinda like telling me to be Muslim for a week... If I'm not interested, then I'm probably not willing...

And why is it an on/off switch for you? There are those who are attracted to their own sex, the opposite sex, and both.

Why would someone choose to be gay and trade away rights for bigotry, harassment, and worse?

And you wouldn't be interested because you're likely not sexually attracted to men. Thus, you aren't and couldn't be gay.

GermanDunk · 11-04-2009, 08:08 PM

Nothing to see here - move along.

Inserting a penis is simply not possible when there is no vagina available. Better do things you have a clue of - watching sports

or pumpkin or goat...

Underdog · 11-04-2009, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OttoOC

Why would someone choose to be gay and trade away rights for bigotry, harassment, and worse?

I dunno - why did Jews refuse to betray their religion in the face of Hitler?

(because racial-Jews were allowed to join the Nazi party as long as they turned their back on their religion/beliefs...)

OttoOC · 11-04-2009, 08:12 PM

Again you're making no sense and that has nothing to do with anything. You didn't choose to be straight and gay people don't choose to be gay.

Underdog · 11-04-2009, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OttoOC

And you wouldn't be interested because you're likely not sexually attracted to men. Thus, you aren't and couldn't be gay.

Well, I'm kind of a bad example here because I'm not bisexual...

Although I have had a few bisexual friends (both male and female) and it's VERY much a choice for them... They usually fool around with the same sex, but only date the opposite sex because they don't have any emotional connection to their own sex (it's purely physical...)

Now I'm not saying that all bisexuals are this way, but the ones I know definitely see it as a choice...

OttoOC · 11-04-2009, 08:15 PM

They're choosing who they have sex and relationships with, not who they are physically attracted to.

Underdog · 11-04-2009, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OttoOC

They're choosing who they have sex and relationships with, not who they are physically attracted to.

What???

They're totally attracted to BOTH genders - that's why they call 'em bisexuals...

OttoOC · 11-04-2009, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

What???

They're totally attracted to BOTH genders - that's why they call 'em bisexuals...

So then what is your point then? You're contradicting yourself.

Underdog · 11-04-2009, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OttoOC

So then what is your point then? You're contradicting yourself.

Is this conversation too difficult for you to grasp?

If people are born either heterosexual or homosexual and it's NOT a choice, then why are there people who CHOOSE to to have sex with both genders?

Almost every girl I went to college with had zero attraction to females growing up, yet they've all messed around with other chicks when they got too drunk one night... It wasn't the way they were born, it was just the way they felt at the moment - it was a choice...

OttoOC · 11-04-2009, 08:29 PM

Is the concept too difficult for you? If they have zero attraction to women, they are not bisexual. They are straight women who had sex with another woman. Sexual preference is just that, not sex acts. They chose to have sex, not to be attracted to them, which according to you they are not.

You're constantly proving my point here and you don't seem to realize it.

Underdog · 11-04-2009, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OttoOC

Is the concept too difficult for you? If they have zero attraction to women, they are not bisexual. They are straight women who had sex with another woman. Sexual preference is just that, not sex acts. They chose to have sex, not to be attracted to them, which according to you they are not.

You're constantly proving my point here and you don't seem to realize it.

So if you let me f*ck you in the ass but you're not attracted to me, then you're not gay?

Check...

OttoOC · 11-04-2009, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

So if you let me f*ck you in the ass but you're not attracted to me, then you're not gay?

Check...

Yes. Sorry you can't comprehend that.

Underdog · 11-04-2009, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OttoOC

Yes. Sorry you can't comprehend that.

Are you gay?

OttoOC · 11-04-2009, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Are you gay?

Would it matter either way?

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 11-04-2009, 08:43 PM

I'm pretty sure with his stance on gay people he's gay, so what. I thought you were gay too Underdog.

Are you jealous he may take up your stronghold on gayness on this forum? lol.

Just playin brother, but you did offer to f*ck him in the ass I think.