What is wrong with Dirk's defense?

[grndmstr_c]

Perfect example of why there was such a strong reaction to your post, Objective. NBA Shootaround on ESPN just broke down which teams were contenders and which were pretenders. Greg Anthony, as usual, showed the Mavs respect, but Lame[img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img] labeled the Mavs as pretenders. His reasoning? He claims we have no defense or rebounding.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img]

[Fah Q]

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
Perfect example of why there was such a strong reaction to your post, Objective. NBA Shootaround on ESPN just broke down which teams were contenders and which were pretenders. Greg Anthony, as usual, showed the Mavs respect, but Lame[img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img] labeled the Mavs as pretenders. His reasoning? He claims we have no defense or rebounding.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img]

Do these analysts actually look at stats and are just dumb or do they just ignore the stats completely?

[Objective J]

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
Perfect example of why there was such a strong reaction to your post, Objective. NBA Shootaround on ESPN just broke down which teams were contenders and which were pretenders. Greg Anthony, as usual, showed the Mavs respect, but Lame[img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img] labeled the Mavs as pretenders. His reasoning? He claims we have no defense or rebounding.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img]

I didn't see Shootaround, but if he said the Mavs have no defense and rebouding, he is completely off base. I think we have led most of our opponents in the rebounding department this year, and our perimeter defense has been pretty good. They aren't going to show us any respect until we start making the other so called contenders eat it and moreover beat the Lakers in LA.

[Murphy3]

I don't think anyone said that dirk was a good defender...But getting up to the level of an average defender is definitely a huge step. i'm sure he's not through improving either.

And I have a problem with some of the so called 'great' defenders. It's interesting how many of them don't match up against them don't match up against the top threat on the other team even when they play the same position.

[Simon2]

Originally posted by: Objective J
Everytime I watch Dirk move around the court on defense, I wish I could take him aside and show him what he is doing wrong. He seems to walk around in an upright position instead of sliding laterally and backward. He needs to start practicing side stepping exercises. My observation of Dirk may be unfair because of his ankle problems, but I am just stating what I see. You can't play good defense standing fully erect.

I know exactly what you're saying. I was watching him on one play where the offensive man was on the blocks. The offensive guy is right handed, he turns to the right and takes a jumpshot. Dirk tries to swat the ball away with his right hand. If he went after it with his left hand, I swear he would have blocked it.

[Objective J]

Originally posted by: jacktruth
Dirk is often out of place on defense. Last night, unless his man had the ball, he kindov drifted of into a half-way threat of a double team on the ball. Meanwhile, his man is wide open. Rasho got at least two scores off of that. I really wasn't sure what he was doing. It was as if he didn't know whether he should double team or stick to his man, so he kindov did neither.

His on-the-ball defense is not really a problem. It could use improvement for sure, but it is his off-the-ball defense that needs work.

I agree completely. Dirk needs to get that sixth sense that keeps him aware of what is going on on the weak side. He doesn't have that eyes in the back of his head sense that tells him that there is an opponent creeping up near the basket on the weak side. He has to either fill the passing lane to that player or if that player gets too close to the basket put a body on him. Again, he can't allow players without the ball a free ride into the paint when he is the weak side defender.

Another problem I have is when the Mavs stay so focused on staying in their zone that they forget that ultimately they are responsible for the nearest player to their zone. Antoine Walker did a really good job of dropping down into the paint when he was alone on the weak side of the zone.

[mavsman]

Originally posted by: Simon2
I know exactly what you're saying. I was watching him on one play where the offensive man was on the blocks. The offensive guy is right handed, he turns to the right and takes a jumpshot. Dirk tries to swat the ball away with his right hand. If he went after it with his left hand, I swear he would have blocked it.

It's still there. I saw him play over here a couple of times when he was 17 and that's exactly what he used to do back then. Since he was so much taller and better than the other boys his age, he would defend sloppy. He installed his own little successful matador defense. He would let his smaller and sometimes faster opponent pass, mostly to his left, turn left and block them from behind.
Took him almost two years in the NBA to shake this off completely, but the fundamentals are still there. Normal, when you pick up basketball so late and are the tallest from the beginning.

[chumdawg]

You know what I like best about Dirk? I truly believe that if he needed to, and was asked to, be an All-Defensive Team member, he'd get there. I don't have any doubts about that. When the guy takes eight stictches and gets his butt back out there, he shows you that he'll do whatever it takes to win. I look at Dirk and I see a winner. A gamer.

Now, he's not being asked to be such a great defensive player, because that may take away from his offensive game (as noted above). And as it is right now, the O is far more valuable to us.

Still and all, I love seeing the progress he is making, and I think I see the day when he becomes a pretty darn good defender...in addition to an offensive weapon that has no answer from ONE defensive player. It's coming, folks. When it does, enjoy what you see.

[Thespiralgoeson]

I know this is an old, old, old thread, which is exactly why I brought it up. I just think it's incredible how much Dirk has improved his entire game since this was posted, but most of all, his defense. Dirk started a bad defender, to an average defender, and now IMO, he's become one of the better defensive PF's in the league. Throughout the season I've watched him contest shots, block shots, strip the ball from people's hands, and just lock-down defensively in every way. I would just like to know what everyone else here thinks about Dirk's defense. I think it's superb, and that he should be an all-defensive team selection. What about everyone else? Am I giving him too much credit, or do you think he's improved as much as I do? What areas does he still need to work on? Comments, please.

[Thespiralgoeson]

double post

[greensborohill]

Yeah, he made a ton of key plays in Game five, defelcting s T-Mac pass that lead to a steal, and stripping Mutumbo when he was coasting down the lane. . and I distinctly remember on both those plays that the commentators didn't say a damn word about Dirk's D. During the T-Mac steal all they said was "Steal by Dallas" and they didn't say anything about the Mutumbo strip.


The NBA is conspiring to make the fan believe that the Dirker is still a poor defender!!

[Five-ofan]

He will not be all nba defensively probably ever because of his reputation as well as the fact that arguably 5 of the top 10 defensive players in the league play power forward at least part time.
Duncan, Oneil, Marion, Garnett, Wallace(whichever one) and sometimes kirilenko are all great defenders.
Reputation is also a big key here because people tend to see what they are looking for. Therefore if you are looking for dirk to be a bad defender and the other pfs to be great defenders than you will probably see that.

Ie The spurs run a pick and roll to get a switch. Dirk ends up on parker. Parker then blows by dirk the commentators say well look at that poor defense from dirk. In reverse. The mavs run a pick and roll and duncan ends up on harris. Harris blows by him and the commentators say something to the extent of thats why you try to force a switch or thats why you dont want to switch if you are on d. I have seen this happen many times specifically with kg who can qoute "defend all 5 positions" that is the biggest load of bs i have ever heard he can guard 2 maybe 3 if its a crappy center positions. He can guards both forward spots or pfs playing center and that is it. But he has that rep so people think he can.

Back to the topic Dirk has really improved on D but will probably never be nationally recognized as being great at it. They will say improved which they said this year but they say that only meaning not as horrible.

[bernardos70]

I was watching the game yesterday and I must say Duncan is leap years ahead of Dirk on defense. For being heavier than Dirk, and with the injury and all, he moves his feet amazingly fast. I watched for that specific thing, and I must say his defensive footwork is impressive.

[endtroducing]

is Marion a top 10 defender?

[LRB]

Dirk has improved greatly on D, but he's a long way from being on the NBA all-Defensive team. But really all we need is for Dirk to be an above average defender.

[rakesh.s]

Originally posted by: endtroducing
is Marion a top 10 defender?

no question about it...he can guard the 2,3,4 and is a great shot blocker

[Five-ofan]

marion a top 10 defender? Without question duncan kirilenko and maybe artest are the only better defenders.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally posted by: LRB
Dirk has improved greatly on D, but he's a long way from being on the NBA all-Defensive team. But really all we need is for Dirk to be an above average defender.

Is he really that far off? Sure, he's not Marion, or Duncan, but I think the idea of him being a 2nd selection isn't off base.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: Thespiralgoeson

Is he really that far off? Sure, he's not Marion, or Duncan, but I think the idea of him being a 2nd selection isn't off base.

Marion, Duncan, Bowen, J O'Neil, Kenyon Martin, James Posey, AK 47, KG are all forwards who I think most voters would rate before Dirk. I certainly would. Dirk isn't even close to 3rd team if there was one. So yes, I'd say he's that far away.

But as I said, we don't need Dirk to be all NBA defensive team. If Dirk is just above average with his incredible offensive skills he gives us all we need in a superstar.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally posted by: LRB

Marion, Duncan, Bowen, J O'Neil, Kenyon Martin, James Posey, AK 47, KG are all forwards who I think most voters would rate before Dirk. I certainly would. Dirk isn't even close to 3rd team if there was one. So yes, I'd say he's that far away.

But as I said, we don't need Dirk to be all NBA defensive team. If Dirk is just above average with his incredible offensive skills he gives us all we need in a superstar.

Yeah, I forgot about K-Mart. AK47, hasn't played enough this year. Haven't seen Posey play enough to judge. But I'd rate Dirk before Jermaine O'Neal. Oh well. I know we don't need Dirk to be an all-defensive selection, I'm just commenting on how much I think his D has improved. Those guys are all great defenders, but I think we can all agree that a large part of all of this is just merely reputation and not so much how well they actually play. I don't think Dirk is better than those players, but I don't think he's very far behind either. Yet, they all have reputations as great defenders, which is why Bowen gets away with murder defensively. Dirk, on the other hand, is still sometimes jokingly referred to as "Irk" despite making countless clutch defensive plays throughout the season. Maybe not this year, but I think the idea of him being worthy of a defensive-team selection in the near future isn't too far-fetched. However, unfair as it may be, it will never happen no matter how good he may become because of his reputation. Likewise, he'll probably never start on the all-star team over Duncan or KG, no matter how much better Dirk's stats are than Duncan's, or how bad the Wolves suck.

[kingrex]

Dirk's defense is fine, it's his offense that's missing now.

[sike]

Originally posted by: kingrex
Dirk's defense is fine, it's his offense that's missing now.

its the shooting that missing...

[kingrex]

Originally posted by: sike

its the shooting that missing...

its the ball going into the basket that's missing . . .

[LRB]

its the ball going into the basket that's missing . . .

Sad but true. We all need to have a DM.com prayer vigil for Dirk to get his touch back tonight.

[Five-ofan]

In the second half yesterday Dirk did what we all say to do, if their not calling the fouls keep going to the basket and make them call it. Well guess what they didnt call it ever. Not trying to make this into an officiating gripe thread but good lord the mavs go the basket at least twice as much as the rockets yet shoot less free throws? Dirk seems to get more touch fouls called for him when he is on the perimeter then when he goes to the basket. Also the finley foul on mcgrady's three was b.s. Yes finley touched him but mcgrady made more contact on dirk jumpers at least 3 times yesterday that werent called.