2-4: Mavs look like a pile of poo.

[BigWhiteStiff]

I wish that the Mavs had at least one person who could take their man off the dribble. The contenders in the west all have a player or players who are threats to make plays from the paint either as penetrating guards or post up bigs (LA - Kobe & maybe Bynum, PHX - Nash & Amare/Shaq, HOU - Yao & TMac(sorta), NO - CP3, and SA has 3 - Duncan, Parker, Manu). The Mavs don't have any. Our centers would be fine if we had guards that could penetrate. The guards would be fine if we had bigs that could make plays in the post. That is why Devin was so key to the Mavs success. IMO Kidd has been much better than I expected, and I think that the trade would be an unqualified success if there had been someone else on the team at any position to be a threat in the paint after Devin left.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by BigWhiteStiff

I wish that the Mavs had at least one person who could take their man off the dribble. ...That is why Devin was so key to the Mavs success. IMO Kidd has been much better than I expected, and I think that the trade would be an unqualified success if there had been someone else on the team at any position to be a threat in the paint after Devin left.

blah, blah. The mavs couldn't get it done with Devin. They almost did with Terry and Howard and Diop at the absolute peak of their games, but they didn't. At point, they need a distributor, cause standing around waiting for a good iso turned out to be bad basketball. And they need a 2 guard. It would be great if he could take his man off the dribble.

[BGMaverick9]

If we could have a legit 2 guard, still have Kidd and Dirk...I would be pretty happy.

[BGMaverick9]

“If you don't compete hard, it's not about Xs and Os,'’’ Nowitzki said. “You can run whatever play you want. You can have all the schemes you want defensively. We've just got to push ourselves to play harder. … I don't know what it is. I don't know what's going on. We don't leave it all out there, and that's what you've got to do. ... That's on the players, on every single one of us. … We've got to cut harder. We've got to defend harder. We've got to rebound hard. I just think we're coasting too much right now. … We're not good enough to coast, as you saw tonight.’’

[ghazi]

Originally Posted by basketballgirl25

the Maves can easliy win and make the playoffs, but they aren't winning the finals this year mark my word for that, I have the same gut feeling I had with Boston last year but for the mavericks to suck again in the playoffs, last year I had Boston winning and I still have them winning this year

Mavs not winning the Finals this year, what a ridicously bold statement!

[candid_snoop41]

look what the lakers did to houston...i cant wait for Tuesday. Hopefully we'll score at least 50...the signs sure look embarrassing...

[ghazi]

I want a win against the Lakers so badly. SO badly... I won't even mind if we lose @ Chicago on Thursday (whens the LAST time we won a TNT televised game anyway? lol)

But if I didn't say already, we're gonna need a hot jump shooting night... it's our only chance... and the Lakers have the best FG % D in the NBA.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I was as bullish as anyone on Devin while he was here, but he's about to be 26 years old and he's in his 5th season. He is, in my opinion a 15 and 5 point guard. The idea that he's ever going to add 5+ points onto his average is pretty out there, imo.

He's averaging 18 so far this season. Granted, he's shooting an absolutely terrible percentage, but still, I don't think 20 is at all outlandish. Even if it was, I'll take 15 points from my starting point guard any day of the week. The point is, when we traded Devin for Kidd, we lost a scoring threat and IMO became weaker for it. For lack of a better word, Devin is an "explosive" player. That's something we're sorely lacking these days. Someone who can just speed right past his defender.

I've watched every minute of every Mav game this season, (including every preseason game that was televised, and two that weren't). And in my opinion, the play of Kidd has been a serious, serious bright spot for this team. He's playing, so far, at the level he was at the last few years in NJ. His rebounding and intangibles clearly set him apart from a PG like Devin.

Kidd has been playing well, yes, but as I said before, he just can't break down a half-court defense anymore, and as we all know, he's not a scoring threat.

Devin is having articles written about his struggles coaching a team on the floor. He is not a natural PG and has trouble knowing when to push the pace, when to slow it down, how to keep everyone involved, etc.

He had those same problems when we went to the finals and when we won 67 games. Now that's probably unfair to Kidd, because I don't necessarily think that we would be back at that level if we still had Devin. You're right about Devin's weaknesses as a player. But frankly Kidd's lack of speed and scoring ability make him at least as limited in what he can contribute IMO. The point is that the Kidd trade was the wrong move to make. We need the exact same thing we needed before the trade; a shooting guard and a low-post threat. As I said previously, we should've waited and tried to make a move in the offseason.

The main problem is that we just don't have the right pieces to maximize Kidd's abilities. If we had a real offensive threat at the 2 and 5 positions I might feel differently about the Kidd trade. But as it is right now, we're usually playing 2 on 5 offensively. We're constantly trying to score in transition and push the ball, but this team really isn't built to use that kind of offense. I mean, yeah, Kidd's great at getting the ball to people, but it's not much use if we're getting the ball to guys who can't score.

I say our best option right now is just to keep starting Green and hope he develops enough to contribute consistently. God knows he's the only guy at that position with any offensive game, unless you count Terry, and we all know how inconsistent Terry is.

What I can't figure out is why we're not a good rebounding team anymore. In our title runs of the past couple of years, that's what made us so successful. This was an absolutely dominant rebounding team. We should be even better now that we have Kidd running the point, but it's just not happening. The defense is also a bit of a question mark.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

You know, I think it's interesting the dispute between offense versus defense. I think that defines this Mavs team right now. If you look at our roster, we have players that can either play offense or defense but few, if any of them, can play both. Let's take a closer look:

Dirkster: Has become a better defender but not this season. He does look tired and slow even at his best this season. Sure he can still put up points but he is one of the best offesive talents of all time so that is a given. Just watch Dirk move without the ball. He looks slow I promise this is an objective opinion because I do love Dirk and don't ever want him to be traded. Getting to the point, Dirk is an offensive player and isn't known for his defense so that is one.

Kidd: Can play really good D but his offense is inconsistent. Sure you can make the argument that his assists make the offense but his scoring and defense are worlds apart. They have been and always will be. Since fans still insist on continuing the comparison, I will say this in Harris's favor: He can play both offense and defense at an equal level.

Josh Howard: Maybe the only player who has the potential right now to play defense as good as offense. Problem is, he doesn't do it consistently. He was known when he first came here for just his defense. Now, he has become a wannabe jump shooter who is mediocre at that and SOMETIMES good at defense. Josh still scores best when attacking the rim, not when taking fadaway jumpers.

Damp: Blows easy baskets like Pamela Anderson blows....well you get the picture. You know, I don't blame Carlisle for playing Bass over Damp at the end of games. As good as Damp can occasionally be at defense, it just frankly doesn't make up for his offensive issues.

Diop: All defense and no offense. Nuff said. Sadly, even his defense isn't great lately.

Terry: All offense and no defense. When the offense isn't going, the defensive issues glare like looking up at the sun.

Gerald Green: Maybe the only player that is improving in both areas on our roster. Sad but true. Still, he is only known for his offense.

Stackhouse: Sucks at both right now. Sucks at the game.

Wright: No offense, decent D.

DG: Defense and erratic offense.

And so on and so fourth.

I think it's pretty clear though that this team can't have an identity when half the team does one thing well, and the other half, well, the other. Whatever 5 players are out on the floor, the difference between them in offense versus defense, I believe, has created a serious chemistry problem. Forcing them to go against what they do best, isn't working either. Just look at the Uberman. As great as his shot is, and it is beautiful, his help-side defense has been non-existent. Thus in lies the problem with the team as I see it. Players that will play half of the game really well and the other half, meh.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by jthig32

It *is* worth noting that the Mavs were missing an awfully important player, someone who was playing awfully well so far this season.

Combine that with Jet playing....just horrendously...and it's not surprising that we lost.

But it's still depressing.

JET is not someone that I believe the Mavs can count on consistently. That's just not the type of player he is.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

JET is not someone that I believe the Mavs can count on consistently. That's just not the type of player he is.

He is certainly inconsistent, but missing his first , what 12 shots? That is below the normal trough of production, even for him.

[destroy ALL]

I didn't realize the Lakers blew the Rockets up by 40 points! I love the Mavs, but I'm betting the they're gonna get obliviated by 70 on Tuesday! Kobe is a Mav killer he's gonna look to get 100 points!

[LSMF]

Originally Posted by destroy ALL

I didn't realize the Lakers blew the Rockets up by 40 points! I love the Mavs, but I'm betting the they're gonna get obliviated by 70 on Tuesday! Kobe is a Mav killer he's gonna look to get 100 points!

This made me LOL so hard, I agree we're going to get our butts whooped and embarassed but I don't think Kobe is going to get a 100 points.

[LSMF]

Originally Posted by slowmo

I say we get jetison and stackabrick some contact lenses and a shock collar to go around their balls and shock them whenever they miss a shot! Put damp on the weight machine so he can power up the ball instead of getting it stripped away when he has it at waist level. Same with PorkDiop. Fit them with some shock collors also and shock them when they miss a dunk opportunity under the basket (like they usually do). Kidd just needs some rollerblades so he does not have to run so fast. Just get JHoudini a nice woman to kiss his owey on his wrist and he will be good to go. Dirk needs to take some vitamain B12 or something to keep his energy up. Bass needs some elevator shoes. JJB needs walking stilts. And Green just needs someone to believe in him and give him more playing time. That should about do it.

Darn I wish the rep system was working lol

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by ghazi

Problem in the halfcourt is fairly obvious to me... the lack of a slasher... our 7 foot PF should not be our best slasher but he is. His slashing is slow/awkward, so it doesn't truly break down defenses.

Our offense is also highly interdependent on defense/rebounding. Stops/Rebounding = running = easy buckets (since we can't get them otherwise w/o a low post scorer/slasher)... and we haven't been great in those particular departments, against the Rockets, Cavs, or Nuggets.

Ugh

In our half court set, it does hurt that the Mavs PG really isn't that penetration oriented at this point in his career.

[92bDad]

"Playoffs...PLAYOFFS...are you kidding me"

[LSMF]

I think we need something out of guys like Wright, Singleton and Shawne Williams. I think if we can get some production out of those guys then we should be Ok

[ghazi]

what does OK mean though? Just a playoff team? past the first round? anything?

Anywho, I don't give a damn how good the Lakers have looked, I want a WIN on Tuesday night dammit. If the Mavs get blown out, I not only expect boos, I WANT boos. If we start 0-3 on our home court against 3 contenders, it basically confirms that we ourselves are not contenders. So c'mon Mavs, TEASE me a little with a win on Tuesday.

Anyone remember that gossip about Antoine Wright being some sort of Kobe stopper during the time of the Kidd trade? We'll see if there's any validity to that Tuesday!

[grndmstr_c]

Just to weigh in a little bit, I think one thing we're seeing is that Josh's slashing abilities are more important to the team now than they had been in the past. There are at least two reasons for that. One is that Kidd is not in Devin's class as a penetrator. The other is that the Stack of today is not in the same class as the Stack of several years ago as a penetrator. It'd be less of an issue if the hope and promise that was Antoine Wright's preseason hadn't evaporated in the first week of the season, but right now, that's what the team's facing, and it's unlikely to change without a trade (Green's doing well so far, but he's not going to turn into a ball handler overnight).

Give me a healthy and functional Josh and I still think this team is a match for most others in the West (I'm not even going to talk about LA), but after him and Dirk there is a sizable dropoff in terms of guys who can put the ball on the floor and create scoring opportunities for themselves.

[LSMF]

Originally Posted by ghazi

what does OK mean though? Just a playoff team? past the first round? anything?

Anywho, I don't give a damn how good the Lakers have looked, I want a WIN on Tuesday night dammit. If the Mavs get blown out, I not only expect boos, I WANT boos. If we start 0-3 on our home court against 3 contenders, it basically confirms that we ourselves are not contenders. So c'mon Mavs, TEASE me a little with a win on Tuesday.

Anyone remember that gossip about Antoine Wright being some sort of Kobe stopper during the time of the Kidd trade? We'll see if there's any validity to that Tuesday!

I think I hate Antoine Wright, over the summer I really had believed he would be a impact player on this team, i thought he could give us about 10 ppg with good defense. Instead he plays like a wuss every time he's out there, Wright sucks. I think he loses his confidence when their are star players on the floor, and I just can't understand why. Its not like he's a rookie, hell even rookies play agressive. Wright sux, I've lost respect for him.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

In our half court set, it does hurt that the Mavs PG really isn't that penetration oriented at this point in his career.

This is true, but it's not any less true that having a PG who didn't see the court very well and wasn't that great of a passer (Devin) also hurt our half court set. Watching Devin penetrate into the lane and fail to find anyone to pass to was an all-too-frequent occurrence.

[LSMF]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

This is true, but it's not any less true that having a PG who didn't see the court very well and wasn't that great of a passer (Devin) also hurt our half court set. Watching Devin penetrate into the lane and fail to find anyone to pass to was an all-too-frequent occurrence.

This is why I wanted Jet to be traded instead of Devin. We could still have Devin slashing and we would have the great playmaking abilities of J-Kidd.

[Zki41]

Though without JET I'm not even sure we would have 1 of our 2 wins right now..

[Kidd Karma]

Just saw Greens 13 in 10. This is our starting 2 guard. His shooting ability/slashing ability/ability to create, is the combo we need at our 2 guard spot. Just watching how we are defended, Kidd's defender's in the paint, Dirk's doubled in the post, it creates so much space for Green to knock down jumpers and if the double teamers comes flying at Green he can attack the rack.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Just saw Greens 13 in 10. This is our starting 2 guard. His shooting ability/slashing ability/ability to create, is the combo we need at our 2 guard spot. Just watching how we are defended, Kidd's defender's in the paint, Dirk's doubled in the post, it creates so much space for Green to knock down jumpers and if the double teamers comes flying at Green he can attack the rack.

He is also the only player on the team whose game is actually getting better. It's pretty phenomenal that he has yet to have a bad game this season. Just gotta keep workin at the D, and he'll get there.

[Stranger]

Originally Posted by jthig32

He is certainly inconsistent, but missing his first , what 12 shots? That is below the normal trough of production, even for him.

The thing that worries me is that we rely on several guys that are seriosuly streaky. Between Jet, Stackhouse, and Bass, you can bet that in almost every game at least one guy is going to be ice-cold. And I don't think we have the defense to compensate for that.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by longsufferingmavsfan

This is why I wanted Jet to be traded instead of Devin. We could still have Devin slashing and we would have the great playmaking abilities of J-Kidd.

Trading Jet wasn't an option. No way would NJ take Jet and his bloated contract for Kidd. They wanted a young guy who would be (relatively) cheap with a lot of upside.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Trading Jet wasn't an option. No way would NJ take Jet and his bloated contract for Kidd. They wanted a young guy who would be (relatively) cheap with a lot of upside.

....yea, either a FA or young piece. They were building for Lebron.

[pepe]

IMO our bench is one of the worst in the whole league, Putting Terry, Bass and Stack in the floor at the same time is just asking for trouble, these guys are a major liability in the defensive end and if you add JJB and all of a sudden Diop, well what you see is what you get.

I have noticed this trend since last year, Terry, Bass and Stack can't play together, individually and apart from each other it might work, but together...NO WAY

The bench needs to be re-constructured, insert Wright, Singleton, George or Williams into the rotation, trade some pieces, Terry, Stack, Bass, JJB or Diop (Not all of course, but some combination) and bring back an athletic big man or low post player and a back up point guard that can play defense and I'll be happy.

And for Holy Mercy what else Green needs to do to be the starter? The guy even grab 12 boards yesterday.

At this time I even trade Terry for Boris Diaw, he seens to be in a sort of doghouse, Claim Marbury from Waivers and ship Stack, Bass and JJB for Nocioni Bad contract and all.

With Kidd, Green, Howard, Dirk and Damp starting our Bench will be Marbury,Wright,Nocioni, Diaw, George and Diop,

Our bench needs a retooling of major proportions.

[slowmo]

Like I said, this is Mav's 3.0. They have a mindset of jump shooting and no d and that will not change until the main players get changed. Keep Dirk and Kidd and find a replacement for everyone else. That is the only resolution to this team. They are all disfunctional parts that don't work well together. Everyone welcomed PorkDiop back but what has he given us? Butkus. Green has been the only highlight so far. Unless something happens I really don't see the mav's making the playoffs. I know that sounds stupid but proof is in the puddin. The only way they make the playoffs is if they have some trades before the trade deadline. Of course this is all IMHO of course.

[quietsavant]

Dallas Is Dreadful: Over the next few weeks you are going to see a lot of negative commentary about the Dallas Mavericks, mainly because the team just is not very good or very fun to watch. Last night the Mavericks dropped to the winless LA Clippers in a 103-92 game at Staples Center. To put it in perspective it had been almost 220 days since the Clippers won their last game - prior to last night it was 13 straight losses for the Clip Show. After the game Chris Kaman took some shots at the Mavericks saying he'd talked with new friend Dirk Nowitzki. "I talked to Dirk yesterday, "explained Kaman to Lisa Dillman of the LA Times. "He was saying they're not playing together. They're not playing the right way. And we've had the same problem."

"I don't want to take anything away from Dallas, but I don't think they're on the same level as the Lakers or the Jazz. Right now, they have the potential, but they're just not there yet."

hoopsworld.com

[Zki41]

With Kidd, Green, Howard, Dirk and Damp starting our Bench will be Marbury,Wright,Nocioni, Diaw, George and Diop,

Get rid of George and insert Williams or Singleton in that spot and I'm game.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by quietsavant

To put it in perspective it had been almost 220 days since the Clippers won their last game - prior to last night it was 13 straight losses for the Clip Show.

Wouldn't you say they were due for a win?

(sucks it was against us, but still - NBA teams don't have Washington Generals-like losing streaks...)

[Rhylan]

Originally Posted by slowmo

Everyone welcomed PorkDiop back but what has he given us? Butkus.

This is right there with escape goat.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by slowmo

Like I said, this is Mav's 3.0. They have a mindset of jump shooting and no d and that will not change until the main players get changed. Keep Dirk and Kidd and find a replacement for everyone else. That is the only resolution to this team. They are all disfunctional parts that don't work well together. Everyone welcomed PorkDiop back but what has he given us? Butkus. Green has been the only highlight so far. Unless something happens I really don't see the mav's making the playoffs. I know that sounds stupid but proof is in the puddin. The only way they make the playoffs is if they have some trades before the trade deadline. Of course this is all IMHO of course.

I share that opinion, I don't think it sounds stupid at all. I'm not letting go of Green tho, I start him immediately. Our Centers are horrible, we need to stop with the "they play solid D" talk, they offer nothing offensively and that hurts us, they flub away the easiest of passes and brick layups. We need a threat in that position, Diop/Damp are not good enough on D to even to be consider solid consistent defenders. The main reason I would keep Kid is to resign him for much cheaper or or the expiring. We're not getting and younger or better, we need to make moves.

[LSMF]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Trading Jet wasn't an option. No way would NJ take Jet and his bloated contract for Kidd. They wanted a young guy who would be (relatively) cheap with a lot of upside.

But the way I see it trading Jet should have been an option, remember that the Nets also got 2 1st round picks from us. I think Jet plus two 1st round picks, Hassell, Ager, Diop and cash is enough for J-Kidd. Its the management's fault that they allowed rod thorn to rip them off in that trade.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by longsufferingmavsfan

But the way I see it trading Jet should have been an option, remember that the Nets also got 2 1st round picks from us. I think Jet plus two 1st round picks, Hassell, Ager, Diop and cash is enough for J-Kidd. Its the management's fault that they allowed rod thorn to rip them off in that trade.

Nets would never have taken that deal. They wanted a young "PG of the future," not a 31 year old combo guard.

It's not a question of what you think is "enough" for J-Kidd, it's a question of what the Nets wanted.

[twosauce]

Trade Stack for Deshawn Stevenson or Jammal Tinsley or Al Harrington or Gerald Wallace. Ide like to see Deshawn Stevenson as our 6th man.