2019 Mavs Free Agency

[Male30Dan]

I continue to personally be amazed that Vucevic isn't more of a desire for Dallas, despite his speed constantly being blasted, which isn't world class terrible or anything (got around LeBron just fine - good read overall too). I'm just honestly blown away by it. He's a fantastic player that fits in with multiple needs we have like rebounding, 3pt shooting, efficiency, position of need, age (much better so than other options like Horford), etc...

If heavily pursued, I also think he would be highly interested in coming given the fit and international presence the team has (vs. likely swinging and missing yet again on other bigger names like Kawhi/Durant on the true star side and even lesser guys like Walker/Harris/Butler). I mean, check some of this out (tried to attach pics with like 3 different tools but not working for whatever reason, so see this link and check out EWA, VA, PER and DRBR by all players but, especially, by way of Centers).

Is what it is - the Mavs (and several on this board) don't seem interested, but I'd literally be ecstatic if he signed. He was the best player on an Eastern Conference playoff team (poor playoff team, but still) and he'd be our 3rd best player (but likely most efficient). Clearly you then have a LOT of money invested in the front court and not a lot to show in the back court, but man, there would be a lot of trade options available too.

People have been tossing around the silliness of Powell in a S/T and Brunson in a 2nd S/T, but I think a lot of teams would be interested in a package with both. Could you entice a team like Charlotte to part with Kemba in a S/T if they feel they're losing him anyway with the combination of Powell AND Brunson along with whatever else it takes to make the trade work (wouldn't desperately need either with Kemba/Vucevic). There are several other options as well if Kemba's not your cup of tea...

I dunno, I just see it possible if you get your C and use Powell now that he's opted in along with Brunson to go get a stud G. Clearly you still have a bit of a hole at your other guard spot, but a lineup of:

Vucevic
Porzingis
Doncic
THJ
Walker

...is pretty freaking good! I likewise wonder how much more efficient a guy like THJ becomes with a team around him like that. Probably not much (and it's possible he's a detriment by still trying to play Jordan ball at times), but guys would be much more open so I'm sure he'd see a jump...

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by Male30Dan

I continue to personally be amazed that Vucevic isn't more of a desire for Dallas, despite his speed constantly being blasted, which isn't world class terrible or anything (got around LeBron just fine - good read overall too). I'm just honestly blown away by it. He's a fantastic player that fits in with multiple needs we have like rebounding, 3pt shooting, efficiency, position of need, age (much better so than other options like Horford), etc...

If heavily pursued, I also think he would be highly interested in coming given the fit and international presence the team has (vs. likely swinging and missing yet again on other bigger names like Kawhi/Durant on the true star side and even lesser guys like Walker/Harris/Butler). I mean, check some of this out (tried to attach pics with like 3 different tools but not working for whatever reason, so see this link and check out EWA, VA, PER and DRBR by all players but, especially, by way of Centers).

Is what it is - the Mavs (and several on this board) don't seem interested, but I'd literally be ecstatic if he signed. He was the best player on an Eastern Conference playoff team (poor playoff team, but still) and he'd be our 3rd best player (but likely most efficient). Clearly you then have a LOT of money invested in the front court and not a lot to show in the back court, but man, there would be a lot of trade options available too.

People have been tossing around the silliness of Powell in a S/T and Brunson in a 2nd S/T, but I think a lot of teams would be interested in a package with both. Could you entice a team like Charlotte to part with Kemba in a S/T if they feel they're losing him anyway with the combination of Powell AND Brunson along with whatever else it takes to make the trade work (wouldn't desperately need either with Kemba/Vucevic). There are several other options as well if Kemba's not your cup of tea...

I dunno, I just see it possible if you get your C and use Powell now that he's opted in along with Brunson to go get a stud G. Clearly you still have a bit of a hole at your other guard spot, but a lineup of:

Vucevic
Porzingis
Doncic
THJ
Walker

...is pretty freaking good! I likewise wonder how much more efficient a guy like THJ becomes with a team around him like that. Probably not much (and it's possible he's a detriment by still trying to play Jordan ball at times), but guys would be much more open so I'm sure he'd see a jump...

Vucevich does not fit better than horford... like not even close.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Vucevich does not fit better than horford... like not even close.

Not even close? Almost all his stats are better so that alone should make it close. He's younger, more athletic, more Euro , maybe cheaper(?). I get that Horford in theory is the better pnr defender, but not even close to a better fit is stretching it IMO.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Vucevich does not fit better than horford... like not even close.

Yes, below average rebounding bigs (that we try to smush into labels like "he doesn't have good rebounding numbers but helps with team rebounding") that are 5 years older despite looking for 4 year contracts, while regularly suffering from runner's knee, who average 7+ points per game less and literally (and sadly) almost HALF as many rebounds, while having a PER of 5+ points lower and a WS of 2.5+ are MUCH better fits. And it's not even close apparently... He's a better defender. That's it 5-0. He's a better defender. They're both very good passers. They're both good shooters. If you just want a better defender than Vucevic, there's a LOT smarter ways to tackle it than a guy that's going to be 37 years old at the end of his RIDICULOUSLY overpaid contract demands. What a terrible take...

Do you know this guy's family or something? Is there a relationship here you're not disclosing? Just a terrible take... And I get it... You'll say "I said FIT" and likely take stances like "we need defense WAY more than we need scoring and amazing rebounding from our 5 - look what Jordan who is a great rebounder but terrible defender did for Dallas last year." And I hear you, but Vucevic isn't a horrible defender - he's just not Horford. Again, if defense is what you want, there's a lot of ways to get it that don't cost 30m/year while degrading terribly each year moving forward. Vucevic is also a really, really good offensive weapon while also giving another 3PT guy on the team to go with his fantastic rebounding.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Male30Dan

Yes, below average rebounding bigs (that we try to smush into labels like "he doesn't have good rebounding numbers but helps with team rebounding") that are 5 years older despite looking for 4 year contracts, while regularly suffering from runner's knee, who average 7+ points per game less and literally (and sadly) almost HALF as many rebounds, while having a PER of 5+ points lower and a WS of 2.5+ are MUCH better fit. And it's not even close apparently... He's a better defender. That's it 5-0. He's a better defender. They're both very good passers. They're both good shooters. If you just want a better defender than Vucevic, there's a LOT smarter ways to tackle it than a guy that's going to be 37 years old at the end of his RIDICULOUSLY overpaid contract demands. What a terrible take...

Agreed. I'm not seeing a decent argument of Horford over Vuc, but I'd take either if money wasn't an obstacle.

[EricaLubarsky]

I hear that we’re both going to overpay for subpar talent, taking us out of all future free agency, and also going to come away empty handed with another wasted year

Can anyone confirm?

[endtroducing MASKED]

Just get me to Sunday night dammit

[EricaLubarsky]

Reaves is not a two-way according to Townsend. Exhibit 10 which can become a two-way

[EricaLubarsky]

DFS gets QO according to Cato

[quietsavant]

https://wfnz.radio.com/blogs/nick-wi...f-kemba-walker

Mavs interest

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by quietsavant

https://wfnz.radio.com/blogs/nick-wi...f-kemba-walker

Mavs interest

Townsend thinks Celtics and Hornets are both more likely than Mavs

[quietsavant]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Townsend thinks Celtics and Hornets are both more likely than Mavs

I trust Brad a lot.
Also trust Rick Bonnell.
Interested to see which side gives.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Celtics make more sense fit-wise. That is still a big sticking point for the Mavs in my view.

[Male30Dan]

Speaking of ways to improve defense (while not sacrificing GREATLY at rebounding, health, cost, etc), this could be tasty if in any way/shape/form it's possible. Maybe a 3-team trade where we have Powell and a couple of 2nds going out to the team that's offering a 1st rounder to Houston with us getting Capela! Now, why the team taking Powell and 2nds wouldn't greatly rather Capela in a straight-up trade w/Houston, hey, I don't want to hear that. Let me dream!

I'd even toss in Brunson to make it work for the team sending Houston the 1st. You could get your starting PG in Walker/Brogdon/etc with the space remaining! Making a swap like that allows us to still get a great player given how close Powell/Capela are salary-wise. Clearly not going to happen, but would be pretty sweet and be an even better fit age wise than Vucevic. Clearly not as capable offensively, but a great traditional 5 elsewhere while also being able to run a bit.

Again, you still end up with the same players going out and the same studly starting 5 that's better defensively vs. offensively vs. the lineup above with Vucevic:

C - Capela
PF - Porzingis
SF - Doncic
SG - THJ
PG - Walker

[Five-ofan]

Let's get some things clear, a) horford is a much better shooter than vucevich. Like it isn't close. Career 37% 3pt shooter vs career 33% 3 pt shooter. B) horford is a much better athlete than. Again not close, not sure where you got vuc was a better athlete smc. C) the the third option in a offense with luka and kp is going to be marginalized much like with bosh when he was in Miami. Given that role(unless you want us to be spamming vuc post ups with luka and kp spotting up in which case we'll just agree to disagree.) horfords combination of screening, shooting, passing and ability to rim run is more valuable than vucs variety of floaters from the post. D) horford has proven he can stay on the floor and remain a defensive asset rather than a liability against small lineups in the playoffs. Vuc on the other hand won't be able to play in games at the highest level.

I'm on record as wanting absolutely nothing to do with horford at 4/112. If he gets that let him go to the lakers, who's window he better fits. But if your going to sign someone for huge money that plays center despite the fact that our second best player WILL play center in our closing lineups in the playoffs, horford is a much better fit.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Let's get some things clear, a) horford is a much better shooter than vucevich. Like it isn't close. Career 37% 3pt shooter vs career 33% 3 pt shooter. B) horford is a much better athlete than. Again not close, not sure where you got vuc was a better athlete smc. C) the the third option in a offense with luka and kp is going to be marginalized much like with bosh when he was in Miami. Given that role(unless you want us to be spamming vuc post ups with luka and kp spotting up in which case we'll just agree to disagree.) horfords combination of screening, shooting, passing and ability to rim run is more valuable than vucs variety of floaters from the post. D) horford has proven he can stay on the floor and remain a defensive asset rather than a liability against small lineups in the playoffs. Vuc on the other hand won't be able to play in games at the highest level.

I'm on record as wanting absolutely nothing to do with horford at 4/112. If he gets that let him go to the lakers, who's window he better fits. But if your going to sign someone for huge money that plays center despite the fact that our second best player WILL play center in our closing lineups in the playoffs, horford is a much better fit.

Dude, your takes on "not even close" are laughable. Horford has shot 3s exactly 1 year better than Vucevic did last year. Horford only started shooting them 4 years ago and Vucevic only started shooting them 2 years ago. Last year is the Vucevic that will be improved upon for future years, especially if you have real talent surrounding him. Last year Vucevic shot .364 from 3. Last year Horford shot .360 from 3. They put up the same average of 3s per game. NOT EVEN CLOSE... LOL... Horford is likely the better shooter when you factor everything in (FT, 2PT, etc), but they're both assets at the 5 and I think Vucevic ends up being the better shooter over the next several years, which is WHAT MATTERS GIVEN WE'RE NOT PAYING FOR HORFORD THE 29 YEAR OLD!

Disagree on the athlete comment - not because he wasn't over the course of most of his career, but I don't think he will be over the next several years. He's breaking down man... We will definitely agree to disagree on his fit in the offense. Definitely... As for your final comment, the last thing Horford has proven is that he can stay on the floor MOVING FORWARD. He's breaking down and I want nothing to do with him at the terms being kicked around. Simply put, I disagree with most all of your points and you disgree with mine. Doesn't matter because, sadly, I think they're more likely to do what you want vs. what I want. Guess we'll see how it all plays out.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by Male30Dan

Dude, your takes on "not even close" are laughable. Horford has shot 3s exactly 1 year better than Vucevic did last year. Horford only started shooting them 4 years ago and Vucevic only started shooting them 2 years ago. Last year is the Vucevic that will be improved upon for future years, especially if you have real talent surrounding him. Last year Vucevic shot .364 from 3. Last year Horford shot .360 from 3. They put up the same average of 3s per game. NOT EVEN CLOSE... LOL... Horford is likely the better shooter when you factor everything in (FT, 2PT, etc), but they're both assets at the 5 and I think Vucevic ends up being the better shooter over the next several years, which is WHAT MATTERS GIVEN WE'RE NOT PAYING FOR HORFORD THE 29 YEAR OLD!

Disagree on the athlete comment - not because he wasn't over the course of most of his career, but I don't think he will be over the next several years. He's breaking down man... We will definitely agree to disagree on his fit in the offense. Definitely... As for your final comment, the last thing Horford has proven is that he can stay on the floor MOVING FORWARD. He's breaking down and I want nothing to do with him at the terms being kicked around. Simply put, I disagree with most all of your points and you disgree with mine. Doesn't matter because, sadly, I think they're more likely to do what you want vs. what I want. Guess we'll see how it all plays out.

First paragraph, vuc had a career year shooting. Horford has been a near Dirk level midrange shooter his whole career, and a good 3pt shooter for a while. I trust that more than a career shooting year for Vuc.

Second paragraph I actually think we're more likely to sign vuc than horford. Horford to the lakers just makes so much more sense than he does here because of their window and the fact that they are probably closer to winning a ring(though I'd imagine not by nearly as much as people think, I think Luka is at least second team all NBA next year) so it makes more sense for both him and them for him to sign there.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

First paragraph, vuc had a career year shooting. Horford has been a near Dirk level midrange shooter his whole career, and a good 3pt shooter for a while. I trust that more than a career shooting year for Vuc.

Second paragraph I actually think we're more likely to sign vuc than horford. Horford to the lakers just makes so much more sense than he does here because of their window and the fact that they are probably closer to winning a ring(though I'd imagine not by nearly as much as people think, I think Luka is at least second team all NBA next year) so it makes more sense for both him and them for him to sign there.

Fair enough on consistency, but again, he only just now started shooting 3s and being aggressive. I think he has more growth to do, even if his overall numbers would be less in Dallas (Bosh effect) - think he would be more efficient.

And again, we'll see. I'm so scared that, as usual, we'll get laughed at by the high end free agents and then stare at a reality where we either over pay for guys like Horford or go 2 years in a row without much of an influx of talent (given poor FA year next year). Do you ruin 2 years of Luka/Porzingis? No - so they do the best they can and sign guys that will only sign here because they've over priced their worth to the rest of the NBA.

Man do I hope I'm wrong, and I've listed a few ways I think it could be avoided in earlier posts (2 today and an earlier one several days back). Who knows... I'm a fan no matter what and will root for them no matter what, but there really is a chance to do something special here if they surround Luka/KP the right way. Fingers crossed and hurry up Sunday!

[Five-ofan]

If we strike out, Thad young and Danny green would make this team a Mid tier playoff team

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

If we strike out, Thad young and Danny green would make this team a Mid tier playoff team

Always been a fan of Thad Young, we could do much worse. Danny Green would kind of be the Wes we had all hoped for: actual good defense, better 3 point shooting. Unfortunately, he is up there with Wes as one of the worst ball handlers in the league and, like Wes, also has zero court vision.

They are 31&32 years old respectively. They both seem like perfect candidates to either take the larger MLE from an over the cap team which is like 9.3, I think, or get slightly more from a team that struck out in FA —2yrs-30m or 3 for 36m.
So we could probably fit both.

[taibumu]

If I was on me the decision, would be: Beverly + Randle + another one, but the last one is more difficult to choose I think

Enviado desde mi MI 5 mediante Tapatalk

[Male30Dan]

Can someone remind me exactly where we are from a salary cap perspective? How much do we actually have to spend (unequivocally) when factoring in everything that needs to be factored in (cap holds, opt-ins, etc)? My apologies if that has been posted again and again, but I've not seen anything firm and what Spotrac lists seems quite high...

[Five-ofan]

I wouldn't take randle if he had played for free

[saclare]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

I wouldn't take randle if he had played for free

Expand?

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by saclare

Expand?

He's a terrible player? One of the 20 worst defenders in basketball, can't shoot(I know he shot 34% from 3 this year) and just generally doesn't contribute to winning at all. In other news I would also not take jahlil okafor if he was free.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

He's a terrible player? One of the 20 worst defenders in basketball, can't shoot(I know he shot 34% from 3 this year) and just generally doesn't contribute to winning at all. In other news I would also not take jahlil okafor if he was free.

I can get with you on defense, but comparing Julius Randle to Jahlil Okafor is way off mark. I would not mind him one bit on the Mavs but he would be redundant if Powell is here.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by saclare

I can get with you on defense, but comparing Julius Randle to Jahlil Okafor is way off mark. I would not mind him one bit on the Mavs but he would be redundant if Powell is here.

Randle is basically okafor if okafor got a ton of touches. They are exactly the same player archetype except randle is a better passer. Randle is just as bad defensively

[DevinHarriswillstart]

NO declines QO for Cheick Diallo. Count me in as addition to the roster pending other strikeouts.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

NO declines QO for Cheick Diallo. Count me in as addition to the roster pending other strikeouts.

He would be a nice pickup as a backup/insurance big if we don't sign a center.
He is undersized for center but plays big and is decent at a lot of things but not great at any. Can block shots and grab some rebounds and actually has a decent short range jumper.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Okafor is a much slower player without half the handles of Randle. Not seeing that at all.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Okafor is a much slower player without half the handles of Randle. Not seeing that at all.

His speed is useless tho except as a transition scorer. He should be a draymond type switchable defender minus the rim protection, instead of being able to switch and guard everyone he can't guard anyone. Bigs shoot over him and anyone with a handle at all goes past him

[saclare]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

His speed is useless tho except as a transition scorer. He should be a draymond type switchable defender minus the rim protection, instead of being able to switch and guard everyone he can't guard anyone. Bigs shoot over him and anyone with a handle at all goes past him

Bad coaching? Perhaps he can be coached up to be serviceable on defense. His value would soar if he could improve defense and maintain his serviceable shooting outside. He could easily blossom into a perfect 3rd role.

[tap2390]

“Losing” out on Kemba is definitely a blessing in disguise. He’s undersized, a liability on defense, and plays the same position as our best player.

[MFFL]

Originally Posted by tap2390

“Losing” out on Kemba is definitely a blessing in disguise. He’s undersized, a liability on defense, and plays the same position as our best player.

Since a non-injured Klay Thompson is not coming through the door, Kemba was the best player we realistically had a shot at. The fit would not be ideal but the talent is there. Besides if it didn't work out, Donnie could always flip him for a better fit

[j0Shi]

So can we already bury the Kemba hype? Word on the streets (aka Twitter) is Boston > Charlotte > Dallas / Lakers. I personally also think Boston is a better fit, especially since Kemba prefers to stay East.

What's the best possible outcome minus Walker now? Horford? Harris + Beverly? I'd prefer the latter, but wouldn't mind throwing a considerable offer at Brogdon should me miss out on all the other main targets. Bucks reportedly have a hard threshold of what they are willing to match.

[BPo001]

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
The Boston Celtics have emerged as the frontrunner to sign Charlotte All-Star guard Kemba Walker once free agency opens Sunday at 6 PM ET, league sources tell ESPN.
7:53 AM · Jun 27, 2019

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by BPo001

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
The Boston Celtics have emerged as the frontrunner to sign Charlotte All-Star guard Kemba Walker once free agency opens Sunday at 6 PM ET, league sources tell ESPN.
7:53 AM · Jun 27, 2019

It’s funny. Somehow I am agitated by this, even though I don’t view Kemba as the best outcome for our Free agency. The media is oddly effective even when you’re on guard.

Looking forward to Sunday.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by BPo001

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
The Boston Celtics have emerged as the frontrunner to sign Charlotte All-Star guard Kemba Walker once free agency opens Sunday at 6 PM ET, league sources tell ESPN.
7:53 AM · Jun 27, 2019

The meltdown on db.com will be epic...

I've maintained since these rumors came about that Kemba was an iffy fit at best. This could be a blessing that fans will realize later on. Don't get me wrong, I really like Walker, but it will be awkward with Luka no matter the situation. Hell, even if Luka told him "it's your team"...it will still be Luka's.

[endtroducing MASKED]

If you’re Kemba and still want to be The Guy, Boston is your spot.

[j0Shi]

Originally Posted by endtroducing MASKED

If you’re Kemba and still want to be The Guy, Boston is your spot.

Yes.