02-27-2015, 12:15 AM
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#1081
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Guru
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 11,699
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
I'm not saying that it wasn't the right move from a policy POV, but what started as a relatively normal screaming match turned into an issue with the suspension. I understand why, but I'm not sure I do it from a perception standpoint. It's a tough call.
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I don't think that was a relatively normal screaming match. Rondo totally disrespected Carlisle and then wouldn't shut his mouth when they were both on the bench. Then at it again in the locker room. You don't disrespect your coach aND there not be consequences. And if you let him get away with just the screaming on the court, you're still setting a precedent. Not to mention he's new to the team. He has to realize this isnt Boston and he doesn't run the show, coach does.
[/QUOTE]I really don't think TMac is being irresponsible with this. Maybe a little overzealous, but he was the one who reported the argument in the lockerroom after game which answered the suspension question.[/QUOTE]
Totally agree.
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Last edited by Melonhead; 02-27-2015 at 12:16 AM.
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02-27-2015, 12:18 AM
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#1082
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Guru
Join Date: May 2001
Location: sport
Posts: 39,431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kg_veteran
I think everyone should just chill out.
If Rondo is as smart as everyone claims that he is, he's going to figure out pretty quickly that it's in his best interest to get along with Carlisle, for however long he's here. There's absolutely no way he's getting the big contract offer he covets with his current level of play. Beyond that, I think that the way the numbers work out, he's probably going to get the best offer from Dallas, regardless of the level of his play going forward.
In other words, I think Rondo and the Mavericks are still likely tied together for a few years to come.
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I don't really buy that Rondo is all that smart.. Especially off the court.
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02-27-2015, 12:19 AM
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#1083
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 17,873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kg_veteran
Not questioning the fact that he's well-informed, but the whole narrative is, by design, an attention grab that would make Skip Bayless proud. It doesn't draw nearly as many "clicks" if you go with the "hang in there, folks, they'll work this out" angle.
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That's right, but with an outlet like ESPN, I honestly never know how much of the attention mongering starts with the writer or how much of it starts with the editors (or just the top-down policy of generating click-throughs).
Either way, I think it's certainly the case that Tim worded this all a bit too strongly.
__________________
John Madden on Former NFL Running Back Leroy Hoard: "You want one yard, he'll get you three. You want five yards, he'll get you three."
"Your'e a low-mentality drama gay queen!!" -- She_Growls
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02-27-2015, 12:19 AM
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#1084
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Guru
Join Date: May 2001
Location: sport
Posts: 39,431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LonghornDub
First, Tim MacMahon is a good reporter. Everyone's allowed their opinion as to his personality--and I can understand why some don't like him (I do, personally)--but he's a good reporter.
Second, while Tim himself admitted he was just giving his opinion, it's obviously a (highly) informed opinion. So while he may not actually know what's going to happen, he's certainly more plugged in than any of us not named Ballin'.
Third, regardless of how informed Tim's opinion is, there's no real value in assessing Rondo's chances to re-sign right now. Every party involved in that decision, Rondo himself included, will be affected by what the Mavs do between now and July. Calculating the "likelihood" right now is like calculating the likelihood that Team A will win a game that's 35-30 in the second quarter. There's obviously some percentage you can put on Team A's chances to win, but with so much time left, the percentage has hardly any predictive value.
(In fairness, I've been guilty of number three myself. But incidents like the one the other night really serve as a reminder that sports can be incredibly volatile, and there's usually not much point in assessing binary outcomes this far in advance.)
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Very, very few are as plugged in as McMahon.
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02-27-2015, 01:05 AM
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#1085
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphy3
Very, very few are as plugged in as McMahon.
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Very, very few are as plugged in as Brian Williams...
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
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02-27-2015, 08:27 AM
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#1086
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Platinum Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,675
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MacMahon is great, dunno why people do not like him.
MacMahon and Randy Galloway are(were) the only guys who ask difficult questions.
Read this for example.
Quote:
But speaking of both Dirk and bad timing...
There was a report Wednesday that a certain former Mav will be recognized this week as the Defensive Player of the Year in the NBA.
Maybe you remember Tyson Chandler, leader and enforcer of a world championship team.
Chandler was deemed dumpable by the local owner because the local owner became all consumed in chasing some faraway fantasy.
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http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...avs-okc-timing
Can you imagine Earl K Sneed writing such a column ? lol.
Last edited by markus1234; 02-27-2015 at 08:30 AM.
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02-27-2015, 08:49 AM
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#1087
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 255
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I don't know how much of say MacMahon has on what exactly goes on ESPN Dallas, but right now there is a garbage video of some dummy with a "#hatehard" video blowing MacMahon entitled "Why You Mad Rick?"
I have a sneaking suspension that Tim had a hand in having it put up to bolster his own agenda. This jackass thinks by having a feud with Carlisle that he'll get his name out more or something.
The video is absolute garbage and has no place on any legitimate news site. The video isn't funny or clever and I'm embarrassed that it made it on the feed.
Last edited by Twenty4sevenn; 02-27-2015 at 08:52 AM.
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02-27-2015, 09:30 AM
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#1088
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Lazy Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lazytown
Posts: 18,721
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The only issue I have with the McMahon stuff is the incredibly blurred lines we have between reporting and opinion these days. Used to be, beat reporters basically never gave opinions. They stuck to facts and facts alone. Whether that was good or bad is up for debate, but it certainly kept things simpler.
What McMahon gave was, without question, an opinion. A very informed opinion, for sure, but an opinion. But other outlets pick it up, and attach the word "report" to it, and give it much more weight than it should have.
That's not really Tim's fault. He's clearly paid to do more than report. But other outlets just don't appear capable of drawing the distinction.
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02-27-2015, 09:54 AM
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#1089
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 255
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I'll just reiterate this for those who think this was a bad trade.
Jameer Nelson shooting with Mavs: 37% from the field, 37% from three
Rajon Rondo shooting with Mavs: 40% from the field, 38% from three
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02-27-2015, 11:03 AM
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#1090
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,051
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twenty4sevenn
I have a sneaking suspension that Tim had a hand in having it put up to bolster his own agenda. This jackass thinks by having a feud with Carlisle that he'll get his name out more or something.
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Is he wrong though? Look how much we've talked about him here.
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Dirk - "We should be ready to go to war."
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02-27-2015, 11:06 AM
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#1091
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinsanity
I have no idea what's gonna happen with Rondo this summer... but I'm sure the Lakers (and/or Knicks) will throw max money at him.
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How do you know this? As good as Rondo can be, I don't see any indication that he's a max player at all. Further, he's probably the worst fit in the league for PG in the triangle offense, so unless Jackson bails on NY after one year, I don't think the Knicks will even be in the mix for him, regardless of what rumors his agent and the NY media decide to circulate.
Now, the whole Kobe and LA thing is weird, and makes for a weird dynamic. I suppose I can see them throwing a desperate max offer at Rondo, but doing so just to placate a clearly fading Kobe would be utter stupidity, I think, so I wouldn't think that's terribly likely, either.
I guarantee you the Mavs aren't going to make Rajon Rondo their highest paid player, and they have to re-up with TY and Ellis this summer, too, so I don't think your nightmare will come true. I'd still put my money on the Mavs getting Rondo back, if they want him, and on a contract they think is fair.
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02-27-2015, 11:08 AM
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#1092
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markus1234
MacMahon is great, dunno why people do not like him.
MacMahon and Randy Galloway are(were) the only guys who ask difficult questions.
Read this for example.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...avs-okc-timing
Can you imagine Earl K Sneed writing such a column ? lol.
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Markus, EKS is actually employed by the team. You get that, right?
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02-27-2015, 11:12 AM
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#1093
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidDaMonkey
Is he wrong though? Look how much we've talked about him here.
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Mavs fans already knew about him. We aren't his target audience.
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02-27-2015, 11:35 AM
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#1094
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twenty4sevenn
I'll just reiterate this for those who think this was a bad trade.
Jameer Nelson shooting with Mavs: 37% from the field, 37% from three
Rajon Rondo shooting with Mavs: 40% from the field, 38% from three
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Yeah I think the worst case is the trade doesn't make us better, but it didn't also doesn't really make us worse either, especially since Amar'e for Wright is basically a wash. So we in the end give up a first round draft pick for the gamble, which is totally worth the risk in my book.
I'm disappointed in the way the trade has worked out so far, but I'm still hopeful there is a chance it starts to click with Rondo by the time the playoffs roll around.
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02-27-2015, 11:36 AM
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#1095
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 7,276
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Man, i got in a heated exchange a few times with my coach (soccer). After the game is over, you talk and verything is good again. Happens "all the time" (not directly but you get what i mean).
Hopefully it does work out.
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02-27-2015, 11:40 AM
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#1096
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,511
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I personally don't care what guys including MacMahon is reporting, anybody who saw the incident and knows Rondo's and Rick's reputation has to assume that this experiment, at least long term, has officially failed.
Everybody said Rondo was sort of a bet and we probably lost that one.
And for those saying this is normal business: When was the last time Rick and a player clashed publicly? (honest question as I don't know)
Last edited by j0Shi; 02-27-2015 at 11:43 AM.
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02-27-2015, 11:52 AM
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#1097
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Platinum Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,675
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02-27-2015, 12:32 PM
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#1098
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 7,276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j0Shi
I personally don't care what guys including MacMahon is reporting, anybody who saw the incident and knows Rondo's and Rick's reputation has to assume that this experiment, at least long term, has officially failed.
Everybody said Rondo was sort of a bet and we probably lost that one.
And for those saying this is normal business: When was the last time Rick and a player clashed publicly? (honest question as I don't know)
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Terry in 2011, Haywood (to a lesser extent) in 2011.
All not as "big" as the Rondo one, but still...
Am i the only one who doesn't think it's "not bad" what happened? As i said, it happens regulary, but not often in public.
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02-27-2015, 12:38 PM
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#1099
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 974
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Kante, I am with you.
Stuff like this happens all the time, I think. This one just happened to take place in front of crowd on TV, unfortunately.
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02-27-2015, 01:05 PM
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#1100
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Lazy Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lazytown
Posts: 18,721
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Stuff like this does NOT happen "all the time". Players are not suspended for insubordination "all the time".
I don't agree that it means the "bet" is "over", but this is not a great sign.
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02-27-2015, 01:06 PM
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#1101
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markus1234
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He was traded to GS 16 games later.
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02-27-2015, 01:08 PM
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#1102
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32
Stuff like this does NOT happen "all the time". Players are not suspended for insubordination "all the time".
I don't agree that it means the "bet" is "over", but this is not a great sign.
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Right, but was the suspension a response to the disturbance, which might be much more common than we think, or was it a response to the public nature of the disturbance?
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02-27-2015, 01:10 PM
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#1103
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Lazy Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lazytown
Posts: 18,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerLeft
Right, but was the suspension a response to the disturbance, which might be much more common than we think, or was it a response to the public nature of the disturbance?
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Based on reports, it was due to the public disturbance not being the end of it, but rather another, even bigger disturbance happening in the locker room after the game.
Blowing up on the court is one thing (although even then, this wasn't a simple argument, it was Rondo openly defying the head coach, which is NOT common either), but having an hour to cool off and then blowing up AGAIN is a terrible sign moving forward.
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02-27-2015, 01:11 PM
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#1104
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Platinum Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,675
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerLeft
Right, but was the suspension a response to the disturbance, which might be much more common than we think, or was it a response to the public nature of the disturbance?
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Or maybe this is what led to the suspension.... https://twitter.com/espn_macmahon/st...09901665800193
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02-27-2015, 01:13 PM
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#1105
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32
Based on reports, it was due to the public disturbance not being the end of it, but rather another, even bigger disturbance happening in the locker room after the game.
Blowing up on the court is one thing (although even then, this wasn't a simple argument, it was Rondo openly defying the head coach, which is NOT common either), but having an hour to cool off and then blowing up AGAIN is a terrible sign moving forward.
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Yeah, I agree that the situation is far from ideal. I just don't think it's all a done deal at this point.
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02-27-2015, 01:16 PM
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#1106
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,885
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I think the biggest drop in Rondo's game has been his FG percentage. He used to be better at attacking the paint. I believe he shot 46% at one point and 60% at the free throw line. Maybe aging and injuries have taken its toll.
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02-27-2015, 01:20 PM
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#1107
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavsfan1000
I think the biggest drop in Rondo's game has been his FG percentage. He used to be better at attacking the paint. I believe he shot 46% at one point and 60% at the free throw line. Maybe aging and injuries have taken its toll.
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Or maybe it's just because none of the players around him are floor spacers, except for Dirk.
Allen, Pierce, KG...these guys were lethal catch-and-shoot guys. Rondo had the ball and free reign to create.
Right now, the Mavs are starting three ball handlers: Rondo, Ellis and Parsons. Something has got to give there, imo.
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02-27-2015, 02:54 PM
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#1109
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Golden Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,908
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Apparently Rondo's happy, everything's back to normal, and he stayed late after practice working on his FTs. Very good signs.
scroll down this page for some quotes/vids of Rondo at practice today http://bleacherreport.com/dallas-mavericks
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02-27-2015, 03:02 PM
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#1110
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,806
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02-27-2015, 03:03 PM
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#1111
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinsanity
Apparently Rondo's happy, everything's back to normal, and he stayed late after practice working on his FTs. Very good signs.
scroll down this page for some quotes/vids of Rondo at practice today http://bleacherreport.com/dallas-mavericks
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Love how all of the Mav stuff is jumbled on that one page. Good things.
__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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02-27-2015, 03:07 PM
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#1112
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGMaverick9
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"I think we have a great chance to win the championship."
Well, I've read enough...
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
Last edited by Underdog; 02-27-2015 at 03:09 PM.
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02-27-2015, 03:16 PM
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#1113
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 42,907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGMaverick9
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Great stuff as always, BG. Great questions and great answers.
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02-27-2015, 03:20 PM
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#1114
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 17,873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kante
Terry in 2011, Haywood (to a lesser extent) in 2011.
All not as "big" as the Rondo one, but still...
Am i the only one who doesn't think it's "not bad" what happened? As i said, it happens regulary, but not often in public.
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I didn't think the on-court thing was that bad at all. But my opinion changed significantly when I read about the locker-room issue after the game. It's one thing to see a couple grown men argue in the heat of the moment, but if it's carrying over after the game (after a great win, no less), that's a much bigger deal, IMO.
__________________
John Madden on Former NFL Running Back Leroy Hoard: "You want one yard, he'll get you three. You want five yards, he'll get you three."
"Your'e a low-mentality drama gay queen!!" -- She_Growls
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02-27-2015, 03:24 PM
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#1115
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
"I think we have a great chance to win the championship."
Well, I've read enough...
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"I'm going to do what's best for the team and play my heart out for the next 22 games..."
THAT is all I needed to hear. And I believe it.
__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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02-27-2015, 04:11 PM
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#1116
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
"I'm going to do what's best for the team and play my heart out for the next 22 games..."
THAT is all I needed to hear. And I believe it.
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Well, he could be lying just to mess with people who post on Mavs forums...
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
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02-27-2015, 04:20 PM
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#1117
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Guru
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 11,699
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32
Based on reports, it was due to the public disturbance not being the end of it, but rather another, even bigger disturbance happening in the locker room after the game.
Blowing up on the court is one thing (although even then, this wasn't a simple argument, it was Rondo openly defying the head coach, which is NOT common either), but having an hour to cool off and then blowing up AGAIN is a terrible sign moving forward.
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So this. Why are people trying to downplay this as a heated argument. This was open defiance, and he kept on disrespecting on the bench, and it spilled into something even more in the locker room. That is not normal coach/player arguments. He's still fresh to the team at that, and he's bold enough to call out the head honcho on the floor.
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02-27-2015, 04:53 PM
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#1118
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Platinum Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,675
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02-27-2015, 08:13 PM
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#1119
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 7,276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LonghornDub
I didn't think the on-court thing was that bad at all. But my opinion changed significantly when I read about the locker-room issue after the game. It's one thing to see a couple grown men argue in the heat of the moment, but if it's carrying over after the game (after a great win, no less), that's a much bigger deal, IMO.
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Wasn't BG reporting that he met his former coach or something and this why he was late and didn't speak to the media?
Or am i messing it up (also a good option because it's me)?
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02-27-2015, 08:50 PM
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#1120
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kante
Wasn't BG reporting that he met his former coach or something and this why he was late and didn't speak to the media?
Or am i messing it up (also a good option because it's me)?
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No one in the media saw an argument between Carlisle and Rondo but it has been reported based off of sources that would certainly know that it happened.
What I reported is that the media was around Rondo's locker, which isn't out of the ordinary. He got dressed and walked away real quick. That can be customary, too, because maybe he needs to grab something and will be right back. But he clearly saw a group of people waiting. He walked through them to get out of the area. He saw Tubby and started chatting with him. Tubby was about 5-7 feet away from the crowd. He opted to walk the opposite way of the media and just leave them there. Some of us saw him do that and tried to catch up with him.
http://www.mavsoutsider.com/2015/02/...ion-breakdown/
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